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> The cost of mounting solar panels nowadays is often higher than the cost of the panels. This fact always surprises me. What goes into a mount that makes it s

• woodpanel 1y ago
  > What goes into a mount that makes it so expensive? Human Labor, the most neglected factor when discussing rising infrastructure costs.
• tguvot 1y ago
  Work
• xixixao 1y ago
  The cost of barista preparing a coffee is often higher than the cost of beans and milk. And so on :)
• jandrese 1y ago
  I wonder if you couldn't do something incredibly simple like get some pressure treated 4x4 posts and use a router to make shallow slots for the panels to sit in. Plant them the right width and run a 2x4 along the bottom to let the panel rest on it. What is it about solar panels that makes everyone want to use these really expensive mounting solutions? Is it just because they're trying to engineer a full 30 year lifespan right from the start? You will still need the conduit for the wire of course, at least up to the inverter. That will add up pretty quickly if your mounts are spread out.
  • zie 1y ago
    You have to account for heavy wind loads.
    • seb1204 1y ago
      Indeed, snow in some areas as well. Also animals.
      • alias_neo 1y ago
        And for a solar fence, don't forget, sometimes, humans.
  • jabl 1y ago
    I suspect that it's difficult to keep the post sufficiently still that the panels don't fall off those slots? Particularly if there's ground frost in the winters in your area. Of course it's possible to make it work, but if you need a concrete foundation in the ground to keep the posts immobile you're destroying the economics of it. Then again, why don't those 'really expensive mounting solutions' suffer from the same issue?
  • nerdralph 1y ago
    It is hard to set the posts with tight tolerances. I used angle brackets to get +/- 20mm of adjustment room.
    • pixl97 1y ago
      Also wooden posts can do very odd things while aging. Twisting, cracking, bending. They are typically much more mobile than steel or aluminum.
• edent 1y ago
  Mounting as a verb, not a noun. It is the cost of scaffolding to get up to the roof, labour to install the panels, electrical certification, etc.
  • qmmmur 1y ago
    Insurances too.
  • madaxe_again 1y ago
    That costs something, yes, but the actual hardware itself is absurdly expensive for what it amounts to - a few bolts, a few simple aluminium profiles. I have several solar arrays at home - roof mounted, ground mounted. The first array I ended up shelling out something like €2k for a mounting kit for a dozen panels. The second array I went to a local builders merchant and bought a pile of aluminium profiles, and got a sack of cheap panel mounting bolts and clamps from China. 30 panels, about €200 in mounting hardware, and I went for the absolute bare minimum truss that would support them and be rigid through extreme weather. Commercially, it was looking like €3,500 just for the ground mounting kit. My labour cost was my sorry ass hauling gear up a cliff like a pack-goat and drilling bedrock to anchor them. Actually, the rock anchors were one of the expensive parts of that array - I think next time I’m just doing deeper holes, threaded bar and grout. So yeah. The noun is bloody expensive, never mind the verb.
    • Xss3 1y ago
      Most people don't live on a cliffside to be fair. I wouldnt have to carry anything for more than 20ft.
  • bawolff 1y ago
    I appreciate that, but my impression is that even just the materials are more expensive before you take into account labour costs, which is the part that boggles my mind.
    • FrojoS 1y ago
      The panels are very light and quite flexible, the mounting material is much heavier and has to provide the stiffness.
• conductr 1y ago
  I laid a set of panels on my low slope shed roof and just never secured them. They’re offset about 1/2” which enough that water flows under them and off the shed. I’m in a very windy location but they are heavy enough to not budge.
  • seb1204 1y ago
    Yes, works for 99.x% of the time until it doesn't.
    • conductr 1y ago
      With mounting costing more than replacement, I like those odds. They’ve been up several years and have survived many 70+ MPH storms. At this point I’m actually curious what kind of conditions would cause them to move/lift. It’s obviously not appropriate for all cases. But the original article, the guy could have gotten by with some zip ties. I’m of opinion that a lot of mounting is over engineered.
• NedF 1y ago
  [dead]
• AngryData 1y ago
  Markup on the mounting systems, installers not willing to take the liability of installing expensive and heavy panels with random garbage hardware that is piercing a roof, roof work being pretty miserable and harder and more dangerous than 99% of jobs, and you are dealing with electrical systems and competing within the licensed electrician labor market. A lot of construction work in general is priced around labor being atleast 50% of the total cost.
  • energy123 1y ago
    This discussion is naturally focused on Western countries but in countries with GDP below $5k, the total cost of 9kwp rooftop solar with battery is less than $10k. Western countries could have this too but it's not allowed due to immigration restrictions and industry regulations preventing tradespeople from flying in and doing it for cheap on your house.
    • seb1204 1y ago
      Someone flying in and mounting something to my roof is just asking for trouble. I would think the gap in expectations (actual and implicit) is just too big. Not mentioning what your insurance will say.
      • energy123 1y ago
        This zero tolerance attitude for problems is the reason it's so expensive (aside from industry lobbying & protectionism). It's better to be pragmatic and allow some level of risk in the name of more sensibly balancing competing objectives (risk vs affordability).
        • stonogo 1y ago
          Fortunately, most local laws in the US require a permitting process where the installer has to demonstrate licensure and/or bonding, so that someone with a defective sense of risk doesn't get people killed. Happy to pay extra to avoid your scenario.
• mckn1ght 1y ago
  I’m finishing up a DIY ground install and just the conductor from the array to the service panel cost the same as about 3 panels. It’s about a 150 meter run. Some very rough numbers from memory: - 20 panel + 10 microinverter bundle: $5600 - cost to ship the bundle: $700 - conductor: $450 - steel/pvc conduit for conductor sheath: $350 - strut for racking: $500 - 3” steel conduit for ground mount: $5000 - concrete and tube forms for vertical post footers: $400 - augur/trencher rental: $500 - brackets/fasteners: $600 - tools: $500 - electrician work to upgrade service panel: $2500 - electrician work for hookup and disconnect install: still TBD but I’m guessing more thousands - time spent x my current hourly salary as a programmer: I don’t want to think about it haha Probably a bunch of stupid little stuff I’m forgetting. Just gas to go on supply runs is probably over $100, although I always tried to batch runs with other normal errands. The most expensive parts of projects can be surprising, at least to me. I also recently invested in my own fuel transfer pump to transport home heating fuel instead of paying for delivery. 55 gallon drums: $20 each. Pump: $200. But the most expensive part was actually the 15 meters of arctic grade fuel hose at over $400.
  • pixl97 1y ago
    For sure. I've recently done my back yard with weathering steel raised beds and larger wooden privacy blocking partitions. I'm doing all the cutting and welding myself, so needed a heavy duty 220v high amp extension cord. Built my own, but the insulated copper cable for that was a pretty penny. Cutting wheels, grinding disks, and welding supplies add up in cost quick. That and all the different fasteners you need. And pity the thought of using any decorative brass or copper....
    • quickthrowman 1y ago
      > I'm doing all the cutting and welding myself, so needed a heavy duty 220v high amp extension cord. Built my own, but the insulated copper cable for that was a pretty penny. 300V 6/3 SO cord is about 6 bucks a foot, that adds up quick! Just be glad you didn’t have to buy any pin and sleeve connectors ;)
  • zahlman 1y ago
• cloudbonsai 1y ago
  > What goes into a mount that makes it so expensive? Its essentially just a piece of metal, right? I think this graph sheds some light on your question: https://www.nrel.gov/solar/market-research-analysis/solar-installed-system-cost https://www.nrel.gov/solar/market-research-analysis/solar-in... What happened in the last decade was that solar panels ("Module" in this graph) got very very cheap. They used to cost $3 per watt in 2010, but now only cost $0.3 per watt. This extreme price drop happened thanks to technical innovations (such as commoditization of PERC cells), and the large-scale production in PRC. Metal components ("Hardware - BOS" in this graph) did get cheaper in the same time frame ($0.6 per watt to $0.5 per watt), but their cost cannot be reduced as much exactly because they are just a piece of metal i.e. there is no low-hanging fruit in Metallurgy.
• JanisErdmanis 1y ago
  Because of the variety of roof designs and associated mounting systems, it is generally known how to mount the panels you are paying for. Installing panels on a high-pitched roof is also not an easy feat. For ground mounting, site preparation is required. Probably one wouldn't want to see their panel system get some slope year after year.
• dukeyukey 1y ago
  It's not the mount, it's the labour. People are expensive!
• sowbug 1y ago
  You can buy cheap mounting equipment on AliExpress. But then you must convince your local building department that your panels won't land on your neighbors in the next storm. That conversation is easier when you're using familiar name-brand mounting equipment that has published and proven all its specs. Similarly, if you want to do a permitted installation, you generally need to use UL-certified inverters and batteries -- fewer shocks and fires. That's a different pricing tier from the "trust me bro" equipment you can find online. Meanwhile, a panel's main failure mode is not producing enough power. They're relatively easy to replace when they fail to do that. Price incentives are better aligned for that system component.
• 0xbadcafebee 1y ago
  > What goes into a mount that makes it so expensive? Ground mounts are far more expensive, not only because of how strong they need to be to support the panels under strong winds and snow without deflection, but the anchoring can be complicated depending on the site. Some people can just hammer spikes into the ground, fill with epoxy, and their array is anchored. For my yard, I have to dig 4-feet down below frost line, through incredibly rocky clay soil, and bury (and concrete) 4x4 posts. On top of those posts goes the (expensive) metal rails to mount the panels. For just 10 solar panels it's gonna cost me ~$1000 in materials and many hours of digging. The metal U-channel rails I'm looking at using will cost around $40/pp (10-ft), and I need at least 10 of them. In theory a cheaper option could be wooden boards like 2x8/2x10, but they're significantly heavier, bulkier, and would still be difficult to mount to. This construction lets me build the array however I want, including adjusting angle (I'll have 4 pre-set angles for each season). This design is still cheaper than the cheapest pre-fab ground mounts, which are metal legs which go for ~$110/pp. You need ~2 legs per panel, though in some cases you can share one leg for two panels. For 10 panels you still need at least 11 legs, so at least $1100, before cost to anchor them. And that's a fixed angle. The adjustable angle ones are more like $185/pp.
  • toomuchtodo 1y ago
    Was a power auger an option or utilized?
    • 0xbadcafebee 1y ago
      No, power augers (even hydraulic ones) don't work well in incredibly rocky clay soil. My landlord tried to use one a couple years ago, got about a foot deep, and gave up and grabbed a shovel and digging bar.
      • toomuchtodo 1y ago
        In my experience, if you’re willing to sacrifice the bit, they can save time in the earth composition you mention vs manual excavation if the driver has enough power (especially if mounted to a skid steer, just drive the bit towards success depth). Thanks for the reply, always curious on improving the speed and efficiency of ground mount installs.
• quickthrowman 1y ago
  > This fact always surprises me. What goes into a mount that makes it so expensive? It’s essentially just a piece of metal, right? The labor alone to mount the PV panel costs more than the PV panel. A union electrician costs a contractor $100/hr in a medium sized metro area with fringes and wages. The mount and installing the mount cost more than the PV panel as well. I’m unsure why everyone is posting about rooftop solar and rooftop mounts, the vast majority of PV panels are installed in solar fields, not on roofs. I actually run and sell commercial electrical work, for what it’s worth.
• htrp 1y ago
  i saw a post some where that they are just laying panels on the ground in africa bc of this problem