4 ms·

I think stories like these are important for comfortable blue state liberals to read, for awareness and moving forward. Coming from a non-wealthy, very religio

by neilv 1y ago

I think stories like these are important for comfortable blue state liberals to read, for awareness and moving forward. Coming from a non-wealthy, very religious, partly-conservative upbringing, I turned out to identify as very liberal-progressive. (My parents grew up in rural areas, my mom had a huge wood Reagan campaign sign in our yard, they were big on responsibility, and we weren't allowed to ever miss a single blessed Sunday of church nor religious extracurricular. Yet they were also epitomes of Christian charity, kept us in the city even when my dad's job tried to relocate him, and switched us to a noteworthy progressive church parish.) As a liberal-progressive with this background, I've had a mix of pride and concern, over the years, about how my current socioeconomic peers have supported some good causes, but also let huge swaths of the nation be thrown under the bus. There's some truth to the stereotype of the techbro "left" glamorizing greed and exploitation, and focusing on a narrow set of fashionable social issues to support, while ignoring the plights of most people. This began before "dialogue" "on both sides" devolved into scoring points against the enemy team. Now --especially with the overt rise of the fascist right (and a lot of ears-covering cancel culture on the left), and other intellectual dumbing-down of the citizenry (partly created by techbros) -- it will be much harder to find sympathy, and to reconcile. But I suppose one of the first steps is for people on "sides" to start understanding the other, including by reading some of these stories about the experiences of others.

weakfish 1y ago
This is particularly why I am a registered independent. The Democratic Party seems intent on shooting themselves in the foot by focusing on cultural issues that only alienate rural voters, even if they are important. I think that’s why Sanders and Mamdani have found success - they focus on kitchen table issues, and don’t let themselves get caught in culture war crap that just pisses everyone off.
- jfengel 1y ago
  I don't understand this argument. The Democrats have plenty of non-cultural issues. The current government shutdown is focused on health care financing. Democrats have long campaigned on raising the minimum wage. Climate change isn't supposed to be a cultural issue. It's a question of science, and that's the problem. Every area where Republicans disagree with Democrats is defined to be a "cultural issue". Democrats do have cultural issues, but so do Republicans. For some reason only Democrats get the blame for it.
  - nebula8804 1y ago
    Yes the party platform contains excellent economic issues that poll high among both Democrats but also Republicans. The problem is when they are in office the economic policies are immediately tossed aside in favor of social issues and then even those issues become a struggle and we end up with virtue signaling. Voters can only take enough failures until the Democratic "brand" is destroyed among a generation. >Democrats have long campaigned on raising the minimum wage. Ok lets take this as an example. Biden campaigned on it in 2020: [0]: https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1303056694360944640 https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1303056694360944640 [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6BmQU9ZwlY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6BmQU9ZwlY Early 2021: Democrats tried to attach a $15 minimum wage to the COVID relief bill (the American Rescue Plan) using the budget reconciliation process. Feb. 25, 2021: The Senate parliamentarian ruled the $15 provision violated the Byrd Rule so it cant be included in reconciliation Mar. 5, 2021: Sanders offered an amendment to put $15 back in -> failed with 8 Senate Democrats joining Republicans to block it. At that point, Biden did not try to overrule the parliamentarian and the Senate did not change the filibuster to pass a standalone wage bill. So...what ~4 months into office the pledge was tossed in the trash? I guess Trump has them beat this term in tossing pledges in to the trash but in Trump's first term he actually threw some of his voters a bone and got things done (repealed roe v wade, tried to build the wall etc.)...actually now that I think about it, he is actually making his most vile voters happy (deportations and increased problems for his voters enemies I guess?) but the "America first" stuff hasn't panned out yet...those voters are unhappy. When it came time to raise the debt ceiling during Biden's term(ie. to help the donor class), all of a sudden there is no problem whatsoever. Repeat this over decades and for every issue that could help normal Americans boom you end up where we are.
gbacon 1y ago
Casually flinging vague accusations of fascism or of having sympathies with a particular historical socialist workers party contribute zero to the sides understanding one another. Words have meanings. Which specific people are forwarding which specific fascist positions? I see a significant asymmetry in the sides’ understandings of one another. The right are typically able to articulate the left’s views reasonably well, but the left operates with caricatures — the aforementioned irresponsible accusations included. We’re barely a month past Charlie Kirk being gunned down in cold blood on a college campus, and not a hit carried out by any sort of right winger. The piece’s handwringing over radicalization on the right comes across as the left failing to understand the other side and refusing to look in a mirror. Radicalization on the left is an enormous problem.
- deeg 1y ago
  I don't understand how anybody can say this when Trump is the leader of the GOP. When Trump called Harris a "socialist lunatic" and a communist was that articulating the left reasonably well? Is Trump calling Biden "Sleepy joe" not a caricature?
- MisterTea 1y ago
  > and not a hit carried out by any sort of right winger. All the Charlie Kirk apologists have "selective" memory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_shootings_of_Minnesota_legislators https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_shootings_of_Minnesota_le... And: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Pennsylvania_Governor's_Residence_arson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Pennsylvania_Governor's_R... All this year. Two murdered, two shot, and an arson in an attempted murder by immolation. But sure, do go on about Kirk and all the leftist political violence. Edit: to add, the crooks running this nation into the ground didn't even bother lowering flags to half staff after the murders. But a big outpouring of crocodile tears for Kirk who wasn't even a politician.
bsder 1y ago
> As a liberal-progressive with this background, I've had a mix of pride and concern, over the years, about how my current socioeconomic peers have supported some good causes, but also let huge swaths of the nation be thrown under the bus. How can you live through Reagan and can say this with a straight face? I remember 25% unemployment rates (see: Johnstown, PA). I remember Reagan specifically breaking the unions which were the only bulwark against getting ground to dust. Reagan threw the Rust belt under the bus, let the companies loot the pension systems, and transferred vast amounts of money into defense contractors on the West Coast. I also remember the equivalent of MAGA from back then cheering while this happened. This is not new. The "I'm okay being miserable as long as you're more miserable" crowd has always had a strong showing in this country. This was also not US specific. Things seemed to be even worse under Thatcher in the UK. Did the Democrats make anything better? No. The unions screamed about NAFTA (signed by Clinton, but started back with Reagan ... see a trend?), but nobody listened. However, where is the accountability for Republicans and the policies they voted for? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, but the memory hole isn't new either (dates to 2004): "Remembering Reagan" by Kirk Anderson: https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGfsf-8cZio3yZlpJOjiuQPvAxoHvmXCTDJT2gBOXvWW3QCT28V2Hy98J_kEnb3UeBTP55QuiiiZ_QLAJ3C-VDPdvntcU0BFh8_eKXp2AjwXniPfMFEVJKG_CLuPkZFWGILigzKI_cGSE/s1600-h/RememberingReagan.jpg https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg...
- janwl 1y ago
  >The "I'm okay being miserable as long as you're more miserable" crowd has always had a strong showing in this country. If the choices are "I am miserable whilst my enemies are happy" and "I am miserable whilst my enemies are even more miserable", I know what I would choose.
  - neilv 1y ago
    There's a loosely related joke, which might apply a little... A person discovers a genie in a bottle, and is given 3 wishes, but with the condition that their worst enemy will receive double the wish. "For my first wish, I would like a billion dollars" Genie nods. Person is surrounded by stacks of dollars and gold. "Your enemy gets two billion." "For my second wish, I would like a mansion." Genie nods. Person is transported to a beautiful mansion. "Done. Your enemy gets two mansions." "Now beat me half to death."

by neilv 1y ago

weakfish 1y ago

This is particularly why I am a registered independent. The Democratic Party seems intent on shooting themselves in the foot by focusing on cultural issues that only alienate rural voters, even if they are important. I think that’s why Sanders and Mamdani have found success - they focus on kitchen table issues, and don’t let themselves get caught in culture war crap that just pisses everyone off.

jfengel 1y ago
I don't understand this argument. The Democrats have plenty of non-cultural issues. The current government shutdown is focused on health care financing. Democrats have long campaigned on raising the minimum wage. Climate change isn't supposed to be a cultural issue. It's a question of science, and that's the problem. Every area where Republicans disagree with Democrats is defined to be a "cultural issue". Democrats do have cultural issues, but so do Republicans. For some reason only Democrats get the blame for it.
- nebula8804 1y ago
  Yes the party platform contains excellent economic issues that poll high among both Democrats but also Republicans. The problem is when they are in office the economic policies are immediately tossed aside in favor of social issues and then even those issues become a struggle and we end up with virtue signaling. Voters can only take enough failures until the Democratic "brand" is destroyed among a generation. >Democrats have long campaigned on raising the minimum wage. Ok lets take this as an example. Biden campaigned on it in 2020: [0]: https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1303056694360944640 https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1303056694360944640 [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6BmQU9ZwlY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6BmQU9ZwlY Early 2021: Democrats tried to attach a $15 minimum wage to the COVID relief bill (the American Rescue Plan) using the budget reconciliation process. Feb. 25, 2021: The Senate parliamentarian ruled the $15 provision violated the Byrd Rule so it cant be included in reconciliation Mar. 5, 2021: Sanders offered an amendment to put $15 back in -> failed with 8 Senate Democrats joining Republicans to block it. At that point, Biden did not try to overrule the parliamentarian and the Senate did not change the filibuster to pass a standalone wage bill. So...what ~4 months into office the pledge was tossed in the trash? I guess Trump has them beat this term in tossing pledges in to the trash but in Trump's first term he actually threw some of his voters a bone and got things done (repealed roe v wade, tried to build the wall etc.)...actually now that I think about it, he is actually making his most vile voters happy (deportations and increased problems for his voters enemies I guess?) but the "America first" stuff hasn't panned out yet...those voters are unhappy. When it came time to raise the debt ceiling during Biden's term(ie. to help the donor class), all of a sudden there is no problem whatsoever. Repeat this over decades and for every issue that could help normal Americans boom you end up where we are.

gbacon 1y ago

Casually flinging vague accusations of fascism or of having sympathies with a particular historical socialist workers party contribute zero to the sides understanding one another. Words have meanings. Which specific people are forwarding which specific fascist positions? I see a significant asymmetry in the sides’ understandings of one another. The right are typically able to articulate the left’s views reasonably well, but the left operates with caricatures — the aforementioned irresponsible accusations included. We’re barely a month past Charlie Kirk being gunned down in cold blood on a college campus, and not a hit carried out by any sort of right winger. The piece’s handwringing over radicalization on the right comes across as the left failing to understand the other side and refusing to look in a mirror. Radicalization on the left is an enormous problem.

deeg 1y ago
I don't understand how anybody can say this when Trump is the leader of the GOP. When Trump called Harris a "socialist lunatic" and a communist was that articulating the left reasonably well? Is Trump calling Biden "Sleepy joe" not a caricature?
MisterTea 1y ago
> and not a hit carried out by any sort of right winger. All the Charlie Kirk apologists have "selective" memory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_shootings_of_Minnesota_legislators https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_shootings_of_Minnesota_le... And: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Pennsylvania_Governor's_Residence_arson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Pennsylvania_Governor's_R... All this year. Two murdered, two shot, and an arson in an attempted murder by immolation. But sure, do go on about Kirk and all the leftist political violence. Edit: to add, the crooks running this nation into the ground didn't even bother lowering flags to half staff after the murders. But a big outpouring of crocodile tears for Kirk who wasn't even a politician.

bsder 1y ago

> As a liberal-progressive with this background, I've had a mix of pride and concern, over the years, about how my current socioeconomic peers have supported some good causes, but also let huge swaths of the nation be thrown under the bus. How can you live through Reagan and can say this with a straight face? I remember 25% unemployment rates (see: Johnstown, PA). I remember Reagan specifically breaking the unions which were the only bulwark against getting ground to dust. Reagan threw the Rust belt under the bus, let the companies loot the pension systems, and transferred vast amounts of money into defense contractors on the West Coast. I also remember the equivalent of MAGA from back then cheering while this happened. This is not new. The "I'm okay being miserable as long as you're more miserable" crowd has always had a strong showing in this country. This was also not US specific. Things seemed to be even worse under Thatcher in the UK. Did the Democrats make anything better? No. The unions screamed about NAFTA (signed by Clinton, but started back with Reagan ... see a trend?), but nobody listened. However, where is the accountability for Republicans and the policies they voted for? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, but the memory hole isn't new either (dates to 2004): "Remembering Reagan" by Kirk Anderson: https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgGfsf-8cZio3yZlpJOjiuQPvAxoHvmXCTDJT2gBOXvWW3QCT28V2Hy98J_kEnb3UeBTP55QuiiiZ_QLAJ3C-VDPdvntcU0BFh8_eKXp2AjwXniPfMFEVJKG_CLuPkZFWGILigzKI_cGSE/s1600-h/RememberingReagan.jpg https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg...

janwl 1y ago
>The "I'm okay being miserable as long as you're more miserable" crowd has always had a strong showing in this country. If the choices are "I am miserable whilst my enemies are happy" and "I am miserable whilst my enemies are even more miserable", I know what I would choose.
- neilv 1y ago
  There's a loosely related joke, which might apply a little... A person discovers a genie in a bottle, and is given 3 wishes, but with the condition that their worst enemy will receive double the wish. "For my first wish, I would like a billion dollars" Genie nods. Person is surrounded by stacks of dollars and gold. "Your enemy gets two billion." "For my second wish, I would like a mansion." Genie nods. Person is transported to a beautiful mansion. "Done. Your enemy gets two mansions." "Now beat me half to death."