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Making a "charging station" that could take the place of an existing gas station would be huge feat of engineering. When I go from the SF bay area down to LA,

Making a "charging station" that could take the place of an existing gas station would be huge feat of engineering. When I go from the SF bay area down to LA, I get gas at kettleman city (because of the in-n-out :) and I go to the chevron station there. From google street view, it looks like that station can fuel 12 cars at a time. And when I'm there, there's often a line for a pump. A gas stop takes, say, 2 minutes. A tesla charging stop takes 30 minutes. So serving the same peak flow of cars would take 15 times as many car spots: 180. Land looks cheap in that part of the central valley, so it might be feasible to have that much space. But 180 chargers, peak, each using 100 kilowatts would use 18 megawatts. Great scott! That's a lot of power. So it looks like this is still in the range of luxury-car, low-volume stuff. I can't imagine what it would look like as a mass-market thing.

Homunculiheaded 14y ago
As far as mass market goes I think you're forgetting why we have gas stations in the first place. Gasoline is highly flammable and toxic so it needs to be stored properly and regulated closely. Because it's a special trip most people drive until empty and then stop by the gas station. But with charging stations every grocery store could have them in the first few rows of parking. They could waive the charing fee if you spend X amount on food (I already get gas waivers from my grocery store). As this type of thing proliferated you wouldn't charge your battery when it was almost empty but rather be continually topping it off. Only on long trips would you consciously time things like stopping for lunch so they give you enough time to charge.
- justincormack 14y ago
  In London there are electric car chargers all over the centre in parking bays. People have them at home too. Some people just seem to use cables out of the window. You can drive without paying the congestion charge so they are quite popular.
kiwidrew 14y ago
> But 180 chargers, peak, each using 100 kilowatts would use 18 gigawatts. Hmm, I think you mean 18MW, not 18GW... sure, it's still a huge amount of energy, but your typical data centre can easily consume 10MW or more. And 18 megawatt-hours is equivalent to... just under 500 gallons of gasoline.
- surrealize 14y ago
  Crap! You're right, how embarassing. I edited my comment.
ericd 14y ago
The interesting thing is that people will mainly be charging at home, though, and will never need to visit a charging station - the car will be topped up every morning when you leave for work. So the number of fillups needing to be done at a station should be much lower. But an interesting point otherwise! I'd guess that the marginal cost of the plugs is low enough that it's feasible, though.
- lgbr 14y ago
  But the number of people needing to fill up at this station and others just off of major freeways wont change. The people filling up/charging at these stations are in the middle of a trip and probably did charge while they were at home. Furthermore, the range on even the Tesla Model S is half that of your typical car, so fillups are even more frequent. This could mean that highway stops have twice as many people needing to recharge.
  - ericd 14y ago
    Yeah, that's a good point. Fortunately, I think it will be fairly cheap to make a large number of plugs, except for maybe the beefed-up electric infrastructure. There aren't too many rest stops right now with an industrial-sized electric feed :-)
    - chiph 14y ago
      The Santa Fe railroad had a similar problem - how to feed an entire train of passengers in the 30 minutes it took to take on water (steam locomotives typically run out of water before running out of coal). Their solution was to partner with a restaurant operator, supplying his restaurants with fresh produce & refrigerated meat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Harvey_Company#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Harvey_Company#History If McDonalds was smart, they'd sponsor charging stations at their restaurants. Park your electric car, swipe a credit card, go get your McMeal, use the bathroom, etc.
- surrealize 14y ago
  Right, I guess I should have said, replacing a mid-long-haul gas station (like the kettleman city one) would be a substantial effort. If this type of electric car becomes a mass-market thing, there would be less of a need for gas stations near home (as you say). But the number of cars needing fill-ups on long haul routes would be just as large, so the gas stations on those routes would have to be much larger if the occupancy time at them is that much higher.
darrinm 14y ago
Let's keep in mind that electric car owners "fill up" their cars at home. Unlike gas stations these charging stations are only for unusual situations. Most the people you see at gas stations aren't on 200 mile plus trips.
- marshray 14y ago
  I've met guys who'd built their own electric cars. Apparently there are spare utility outlets in quite a few parking garages. :-)
veemjeem 14y ago
When it hits mass market, there will be charging stations at every metered parking spot. You can pay 25 cents for 15 minutes, or $1 for 15 minutes and a battery charge. Parking meters already draw power from the grid, so all they need to do is slap on a measurement tool and an electrical socket. The only reason gas station exists is because one needs to store a great amount of gasoline in a container, but power lines are pretty much everywhere. Gas stations of tomorrow will be like the coin operated telephones of today. Most will become toxic barren shells, but few will be converted into toxic waste storage units. Getting gas is an extraneous hassle that people in the future won't need to do anymore. Brick and mortar stores will all advertise "free charging" the same way they advertise free wifi today.
kamaal 14y ago
>>I can't imagine what it would look like as a mass-market thing. Things are likely to change in the future. Better mileage, more space for batteries and faster charging times might mean you charge fewer number of times for more mileage.
philhippus 14y ago
When every car on the road is electric, it will be feasible to have special "charging lanes" on the highways. In fact the whole road network could eventually be made to safely deliver charge to moving vehicles. Perhaps without the need to use the battery at all on these roads.

Homunculiheaded 14y ago

As far as mass market goes I think you're forgetting why we have gas stations in the first place. Gasoline is highly flammable and toxic so it needs to be stored properly and regulated closely. Because it's a special trip most people drive until empty and then stop by the gas station. But with charging stations every grocery store could have them in the first few rows of parking. They could waive the charing fee if you spend X amount on food (I already get gas waivers from my grocery store). As this type of thing proliferated you wouldn't charge your battery when it was almost empty but rather be continually topping it off. Only on long trips would you consciously time things like stopping for lunch so they give you enough time to charge.

justincormack 14y ago
In London there are electric car chargers all over the centre in parking bays. People have them at home too. Some people just seem to use cables out of the window. You can drive without paying the congestion charge so they are quite popular.

kiwidrew 14y ago

> But 180 chargers, peak, each using 100 kilowatts would use 18 gigawatts. Hmm, I think you mean 18MW, not 18GW... sure, it's still a huge amount of energy, but your typical data centre can easily consume 10MW or more. And 18 megawatt-hours is equivalent to... just under 500 gallons of gasoline.

surrealize 14y ago
Crap! You're right, how embarassing. I edited my comment.

ericd 14y ago

The interesting thing is that people will mainly be charging at home, though, and will never need to visit a charging station - the car will be topped up every morning when you leave for work. So the number of fillups needing to be done at a station should be much lower. But an interesting point otherwise! I'd guess that the marginal cost of the plugs is low enough that it's feasible, though.

lgbr 14y ago
But the number of people needing to fill up at this station and others just off of major freeways wont change. The people filling up/charging at these stations are in the middle of a trip and probably did charge while they were at home. Furthermore, the range on even the Tesla Model S is half that of your typical car, so fillups are even more frequent. This could mean that highway stops have twice as many people needing to recharge.
- ericd 14y ago
  Yeah, that's a good point. Fortunately, I think it will be fairly cheap to make a large number of plugs, except for maybe the beefed-up electric infrastructure. There aren't too many rest stops right now with an industrial-sized electric feed :-)
  - chiph 14y ago
    The Santa Fe railroad had a similar problem - how to feed an entire train of passengers in the 30 minutes it took to take on water (steam locomotives typically run out of water before running out of coal). Their solution was to partner with a restaurant operator, supplying his restaurants with fresh produce & refrigerated meat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Harvey_Company#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Harvey_Company#History If McDonalds was smart, they'd sponsor charging stations at their restaurants. Park your electric car, swipe a credit card, go get your McMeal, use the bathroom, etc.
surrealize 14y ago
Right, I guess I should have said, replacing a mid-long-haul gas station (like the kettleman city one) would be a substantial effort. If this type of electric car becomes a mass-market thing, there would be less of a need for gas stations near home (as you say). But the number of cars needing fill-ups on long haul routes would be just as large, so the gas stations on those routes would have to be much larger if the occupancy time at them is that much higher.

darrinm 14y ago

Let's keep in mind that electric car owners "fill up" their cars at home. Unlike gas stations these charging stations are only for unusual situations. Most the people you see at gas stations aren't on 200 mile plus trips.

marshray 14y ago
I've met guys who'd built their own electric cars. Apparently there are spare utility outlets in quite a few parking garages. :-)

veemjeem 14y ago

When it hits mass market, there will be charging stations at every metered parking spot. You can pay 25 cents for 15 minutes, or $1 for 15 minutes and a battery charge. Parking meters already draw power from the grid, so all they need to do is slap on a measurement tool and an electrical socket. The only reason gas station exists is because one needs to store a great amount of gasoline in a container, but power lines are pretty much everywhere. Gas stations of tomorrow will be like the coin operated telephones of today. Most will become toxic barren shells, but few will be converted into toxic waste storage units. Getting gas is an extraneous hassle that people in the future won't need to do anymore. Brick and mortar stores will all advertise "free charging" the same way they advertise free wifi today.

kamaal 14y ago

>>I can't imagine what it would look like as a mass-market thing. Things are likely to change in the future. Better mileage, more space for batteries and faster charging times might mean you charge fewer number of times for more mileage.

philhippus 14y ago

When every car on the road is electric, it will be feasible to have special "charging lanes" on the highways. In fact the whole road network could eventually be made to safely deliver charge to moving vehicles. Perhaps without the need to use the battery at all on these roads.