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People can be trained, legal obstacles can be removed and yeah it'll be expensive if they choose to do it. That said if Putin went completely off the deep end

People can be trained, legal obstacles can be removed and yeah it'll be expensive if they choose to do it. That said if Putin went completely off the deep end and invaded eastern Europe you'd be amazed how fast planning laws on building stuff went out the window - Democratic governments can move fast when they have to but tend towards inaction when they don't. It's also quite entertaining to just write off Western Europe based on resource availability - China itself is quite poor on natural resources (which is why they've played the long game in Africa so well, they get resources and build a market to sell manufactured goods to at the same time - it's been masterful realpolitik from them).

dataviz1000 1y ago
Also, Afghanistan. I met a Chinese woman while I was traveling Japan. She was showing me pictures of her last two trips, Nigeria and Afghanistan. She owns a business in her city and employs people from those two countries. They had invited her to visit their homes. I remember thinking looking at how much the people adored her in the images and videos from Afghanistan that she is very dangerous and probably doesn't know it. She had me holding her bags as she was shopping for Rolex watches and handmade tea sets in Kyoto taking advantage of the currency rates in Japan. I'm in South America now and saw first hand how China has huge influence in Peru and Panama. My neighbors in the airbnb in a luxury condo in Lima were mostly business people from China in the mining industry who also spoke English. There is a lot of Canadian mining influence in Peru also. China is also far more connected to Ecuador and Bolivia. Good thing the US still has close ties with Colombia .... oh, wait, they attacked the US Embassy with bow and arrows last week. If Elon wants access to that lithium he needs to get his shit together. Good thing for the United States the single most influential person in Latin America is from the United States, Bad Bunny.
- noir_lord 1y ago
  Indeed - We are kind of inured to it the "west" (or western aligned so we can include Japan, Korea and Taiwan) because we use Chinese production but we don't use all of it preferring to buy our own brands even if they are using Chinese components or straight made in China but if you step to the edges of the west (say Hungary which is the one I know the best) you see Chinese brands everywhere because they are as good and frequently cheaper and outside of those areas the gap widens further. The US did (and does) have a counter balance in its complete domination of the tech landscape, excellent sources of capital, "loose" immigration policies and excellent universities - all of which they set on fire for reasons I don't entirely as a European understand.
bilbo0s 1y ago
>which is why they've played the long game in Africa so well, they get resources and build a market to sell manufactured goods to at the same time - it's been masterful There are definitely two future bad possible outcomes for the US, and one nightmare future scenario for the US. One bad outcome scenario is that China and subsaharan Africa figure out that they're better off working in concert than working at odds with each other. (This seems to be happening.) The other bad outcome scenario is that the EU and subsaharan Afica figure out that they're better off working in concert than working at odds with each other. (This doesn't seem to be happening as far as I can tell?) The nightmare scenario is, of course, that China, the EU, and subsaharan Africa actually figure out that they don't really even need the rest of us.
- uvaursi 1y ago
  Given the size of China’s internal economy I think they already know, just on their own, that they don’t need anyone else and any agreements with other countries are just cherries on top, because you can take Europe and fill a Chinese village with it. This is not a prediction of the future.
  - bilbo0s 1y ago
    you can take Europe and fill a Chinese village with it Pretty sure the EU is far bigger than you're thinking it is.
  - judahmeek 1y ago
    China doesn't have a strong internal economy. They probably have a lot of saving that might be able to be translated into an internal economy, but they seem to have a cultural leaning towards frugalness: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/23/business/china-economy-consumer-spending.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/23/business/china-economy-co... China has a massive energy & manufacturing base, which can easily translate into military power, but until they decide to transform into a war economy, they need trading partners to keep their citizens employed, which is already a struggle for their young adults who I guess don't want to work in factories.

dataviz1000 1y ago

Also, Afghanistan. I met a Chinese woman while I was traveling Japan. She was showing me pictures of her last two trips, Nigeria and Afghanistan. She owns a business in her city and employs people from those two countries. They had invited her to visit their homes. I remember thinking looking at how much the people adored her in the images and videos from Afghanistan that she is very dangerous and probably doesn't know it. She had me holding her bags as she was shopping for Rolex watches and handmade tea sets in Kyoto taking advantage of the currency rates in Japan. I'm in South America now and saw first hand how China has huge influence in Peru and Panama. My neighbors in the airbnb in a luxury condo in Lima were mostly business people from China in the mining industry who also spoke English. There is a lot of Canadian mining influence in Peru also. China is also far more connected to Ecuador and Bolivia. Good thing the US still has close ties with Colombia .... oh, wait, they attacked the US Embassy with bow and arrows last week. If Elon wants access to that lithium he needs to get his shit together. Good thing for the United States the single most influential person in Latin America is from the United States, Bad Bunny.

noir_lord 1y ago
Indeed - We are kind of inured to it the "west" (or western aligned so we can include Japan, Korea and Taiwan) because we use Chinese production but we don't use all of it preferring to buy our own brands even if they are using Chinese components or straight made in China but if you step to the edges of the west (say Hungary which is the one I know the best) you see Chinese brands everywhere because they are as good and frequently cheaper and outside of those areas the gap widens further. The US did (and does) have a counter balance in its complete domination of the tech landscape, excellent sources of capital, "loose" immigration policies and excellent universities - all of which they set on fire for reasons I don't entirely as a European understand.

bilbo0s 1y ago

>which is why they've played the long game in Africa so well, they get resources and build a market to sell manufactured goods to at the same time - it's been masterful There are definitely two future bad possible outcomes for the US, and one nightmare future scenario for the US. One bad outcome scenario is that China and subsaharan Africa figure out that they're better off working in concert than working at odds with each other. (This seems to be happening.) The other bad outcome scenario is that the EU and subsaharan Afica figure out that they're better off working in concert than working at odds with each other. (This doesn't seem to be happening as far as I can tell?) The nightmare scenario is, of course, that China, the EU, and subsaharan Africa actually figure out that they don't really even need the rest of us.

uvaursi 1y ago
Given the size of China’s internal economy I think they already know, just on their own, that they don’t need anyone else and any agreements with other countries are just cherries on top, because you can take Europe and fill a Chinese village with it. This is not a prediction of the future.
- bilbo0s 1y ago
  you can take Europe and fill a Chinese village with it Pretty sure the EU is far bigger than you're thinking it is.
- judahmeek 1y ago
  China doesn't have a strong internal economy. They probably have a lot of saving that might be able to be translated into an internal economy, but they seem to have a cultural leaning towards frugalness: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/23/business/china-economy-consumer-spending.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/23/business/china-economy-co... China has a massive energy & manufacturing base, which can easily translate into military power, but until they decide to transform into a war economy, they need trading partners to keep their citizens employed, which is already a struggle for their young adults who I guess don't want to work in factories.