3 ms·

I guess doctors, scientists, and politicians are going to need to stop pretending COVID never happened then and acknowledge the massive loss in public trust tha

I guess doctors, scientists, and politicians are going to need to stop pretending COVID never happened then and acknowledge the massive loss in public trust that resulted in the pendulum swinging the other way. I'm talking the mandates pushed by "experts" to force young K-12 students (Like my sister) into remote schooling that had profound impacts on their social life and education. Or when California arrested people for going to a beach or a public park based on the advice of their respective health experts. Or when Nevada closed Churches, but not Liquor Stores and Pot Dispensaries, because the experts had decided Constitutional Rights weren't an essential activity. Perhaps when those mistakes are acknowledged things can go back to normal.

redserk 1y ago
Who’s pretending COVID didn’t happen?
- quentindanjou 1y ago
  I think it was more meant as the society is ignoring it like a trauma that no one wants to talk about. This results in missing learnings on decisions that were taken back then.
ceejayoz 1y ago
> Or when Nevada closed Churches, but not Liquor Stores and Pot Dispensaries, because the experts had decided Constitutional Rights weren't an essential activity. People die from alcohol withdrawal, and dispensaries are medical care for a lot of folks.
- mindslight 1y ago
  > People die from alcohol withdrawal, and dispensaries are medical care for a lot of folks. This is the exact type of argument that merely helped to inflame the debate. The real distinction is that church services are mass gatherings of people, whereas liquor and pot are retail establishments that only serve a few people at a given time. Stores can institute policies to make people come into even less contact - whereas for churches the mass of people coming together is intrinsic. The original argument fallaciously skips over that actual reality, and frames it as if public health administrators are godless heathens more interested in people getting their weed and booze than people going to church. Your counter argument, despite being technically correct, actually buttresses support for the original one.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    “People will die if we do x” is important, even if it hurts the fee-fees. “It’s a mass gathering” arguments met the same resistance. Any argument would have.
    - mindslight 1y ago
      I'm with you on the idea that fascists will make any argument, and only value arguments as weapons rather than a good-faith attempt to figure things out. But I still believe there are people in the middle who are swayed by better arguments. Maybe that's just my fatal flaw of being eternally hopeful that people will actually use their intelligence. But if this isn't the case, then what are we even doing? (as for your actual argument, one can make the same argument that people will die without being able to get their fix of social church interaction. so then we're talking about numbers for hypotheticals, and right back to the dynamic where it's not even about logic)
    - viridian 1y ago
      Whatever your own feelings on the matter are, condescending to people with terms like "fee-fees" only engenders more conflict and outrage. It's a fraction of a drop in an ocean of online hostility and malevolence, but is still a contributor nonetheless.
verall 1y ago
A church is literally a place for mass assembly, while a liquor store or dispensary can easily be configured for social distancing, i.e. only let up to N customers in the store at a time depending on the size. But just think how good of a talking point this is! Bad government stop CHURCH allow LIQUOR and DRUGS! Want to corrupt your CHILDREN, steal them from GODS arms and deliver to SATAN!
- oceanplexian 1y ago
  Public figures never had a problem with mass assembly. That's why the Governor of California wined and dined at the French Laundry restaurant in violation of his own COVID protocols at the height of the pandemic. Or why public figures encouraged people to attend large protests. It's pretty obvious in retrospect that they were playing fast and loose with the science for entirely political reasons.
  - mindslight 1y ago
    Sure, that doesn't give you license to play fast and loose rejecting science for entirely political reasons. Individuals are fallible, politicians are hypocritical, news at 11. Rather than aim for consistent application of rules and justice, your movement seems to have overextrapolated these failings into a rejection of having any kind of society in the first place.
    - viridian 1y ago
      I think people view it more as an irreparable shattering of the social contract. Society exists, but the rules just don't matter. Many people have become strict conflict theorists, to borrow a term from sociology.
  - verall 1y ago
    What political goals do you suppose they were trying to accomplish by restricting public gathering establishments? Is the governor of California secretly a Republican trying to help create right wing talking points?
- 1y ago
vunderba 1y ago
There's a reason that churches were closed. It's an event which encourages lots and lots of people to gather in close proximity for an extended duration of time at the same time. Remember this? https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/13/us/coronavirus-washington-choir-outbreak-trnd https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/13/us/coronavirus-washington-cho...
- blooalien 11mo ago
  > There's a reason that churches were closed. It's an event which encourages lots and lots of people to gather in close proximity for an extended duration of time at the same time. And to sing hymns loudly together in that enclosed space (which almost certainly helps spread a respiratory disease just that much more easily).
onewheeltom 1y ago
Dying of Covid is worse than a bad impact to social life and education.

redserk 1y ago

Who’s pretending COVID didn’t happen?

quentindanjou 1y ago
I think it was more meant as the society is ignoring it like a trauma that no one wants to talk about. This results in missing learnings on decisions that were taken back then.

ceejayoz 1y ago

> Or when Nevada closed Churches, but not Liquor Stores and Pot Dispensaries, because the experts had decided Constitutional Rights weren't an essential activity. People die from alcohol withdrawal, and dispensaries are medical care for a lot of folks.

mindslight 1y ago
> People die from alcohol withdrawal, and dispensaries are medical care for a lot of folks. This is the exact type of argument that merely helped to inflame the debate. The real distinction is that church services are mass gatherings of people, whereas liquor and pot are retail establishments that only serve a few people at a given time. Stores can institute policies to make people come into even less contact - whereas for churches the mass of people coming together is intrinsic. The original argument fallaciously skips over that actual reality, and frames it as if public health administrators are godless heathens more interested in people getting their weed and booze than people going to church. Your counter argument, despite being technically correct, actually buttresses support for the original one.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  “People will die if we do x” is important, even if it hurts the fee-fees. “It’s a mass gathering” arguments met the same resistance. Any argument would have.
  - mindslight 1y ago
    I'm with you on the idea that fascists will make any argument, and only value arguments as weapons rather than a good-faith attempt to figure things out. But I still believe there are people in the middle who are swayed by better arguments. Maybe that's just my fatal flaw of being eternally hopeful that people will actually use their intelligence. But if this isn't the case, then what are we even doing? (as for your actual argument, one can make the same argument that people will die without being able to get their fix of social church interaction. so then we're talking about numbers for hypotheticals, and right back to the dynamic where it's not even about logic)
  - viridian 1y ago
    Whatever your own feelings on the matter are, condescending to people with terms like "fee-fees" only engenders more conflict and outrage. It's a fraction of a drop in an ocean of online hostility and malevolence, but is still a contributor nonetheless.

verall 1y ago

A church is literally a place for mass assembly, while a liquor store or dispensary can easily be configured for social distancing, i.e. only let up to N customers in the store at a time depending on the size. But just think how good of a talking point this is! Bad government stop CHURCH allow LIQUOR and DRUGS! Want to corrupt your CHILDREN, steal them from GODS arms and deliver to SATAN!

oceanplexian 1y ago
Public figures never had a problem with mass assembly. That's why the Governor of California wined and dined at the French Laundry restaurant in violation of his own COVID protocols at the height of the pandemic. Or why public figures encouraged people to attend large protests. It's pretty obvious in retrospect that they were playing fast and loose with the science for entirely political reasons.
- mindslight 1y ago
  Sure, that doesn't give you license to play fast and loose rejecting science for entirely political reasons. Individuals are fallible, politicians are hypocritical, news at 11. Rather than aim for consistent application of rules and justice, your movement seems to have overextrapolated these failings into a rejection of having any kind of society in the first place.
  - viridian 1y ago
    I think people view it more as an irreparable shattering of the social contract. Society exists, but the rules just don't matter. Many people have become strict conflict theorists, to borrow a term from sociology.
- verall 1y ago
  What political goals do you suppose they were trying to accomplish by restricting public gathering establishments? Is the governor of California secretly a Republican trying to help create right wing talking points?
1y ago

vunderba 1y ago

There's a reason that churches were closed. It's an event which encourages lots and lots of people to gather in close proximity for an extended duration of time at the same time. Remember this? https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/13/us/coronavirus-washington-choir-outbreak-trnd https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/13/us/coronavirus-washington-cho...

blooalien 11mo ago
> There's a reason that churches were closed. It's an event which encourages lots and lots of people to gather in close proximity for an extended duration of time at the same time. And to sing hymns loudly together in that enclosed space (which almost certainly helps spread a respiratory disease just that much more easily).

onewheeltom 1y ago

Dying of Covid is worse than a bad impact to social life and education.