3 ms·

Sweden and Ukraine eye export deal for up to 150 Gripen fighter jets

16 points by guerrilla 1y ago

lysace 1y ago
It appears the idea is to fund this using frozen Russian funds in EU. Zelenskyy and Kristersson (Swedish PM) both made a point of saying they are travelling to Brussels tonight to attempt to make this happen. (I watched the press conference stream from Saab/Linköping. It's available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF6PUxSPEKU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF6PUxSPEKU)
mikece 1y ago
Good: the Gripen is a fantastic plane and I'm happy that Saab is making sales of this platform. If it were not for the economic terrorism/influence of the US then Saab would be selling a lot more of these planes to countries who are currently being forced into buying the F-35. Bad: this is likely to cause an escalation in tensions in the Ukraine-Russia situation.
- lysace 1y ago
  > this is likely to cause an escalation in tensions in the Ukraine-Russia situation. ? These countries are at full war. The only NBCs the Russians aren't using is their nuclear and biological arsenal. They are using their chemical weapons.
  - guerrilla 1y ago
    Not only that but Russia is constantly violating NATO airspace, flying drones over our airports, sabotaging things and getting caught for spying. Talk to Russia about escalation. Check the map in today's update: https://understandingwar.org/research/russia-ukraine/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-october-21-2025/ https://understandingwar.org/research/russia-ukraine/russian...
  - mikece 1y ago
    I had not heard that. What chemical weapons are they using? As for "they are at war, what do you mean 'escalations'" I'm referring to western countries, including the US, giving Ukraine the ability to make deep strikes into Russia that could provoke Russia in declaring officially what has been the de facto case for a while: it's not fighting Ukraine, it's fighting NATO and NATO is striking through the Ukrainians but Russia has not yet struck back at NATO. Forgive me for hoping that we might be able to find peace and avoid the deaths of hundreds of millions of people by not ratcheting things up in Ukraine more than it already is.
    - lysace 1y ago
      https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2025/05/20/chemical-weapons-eu-sanctions-three-entities-in-the-russian-armed-forces-over-use-of-chemical-weapons-in-ukraine/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2025... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Use_during_the_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_weapons_of_mass_des... The "peace" word in this context is not really what it seems like. The "peace" movement in our countries is often of full of at least former Soviet and Russian funding. Essentially tankies. I think you can imagine their goals.
      - mikece 1y ago
        I'm a US military veteran and nobody is paying me to speak one way or another about any of this. I just see the minimization and avoidance of war as preferrable to bullets flying and people dying. Yes, that is happening now in a limited context (Ukraine and Russia) but and I hope that comes to an end before it spills over to a full and formal NATO vs. Russia (and China?) engagement.
        mopsi 1y ago
        One-sided avoidance of war can be counterproductive and make everything worse. Hundreds of thousands of people have died in Ukraine since 2022 because the response to the initial invasion in 2014 focused too much on avoiding confrontation, which was taken as a sign of weakness to exploit. Up until the day of the invasion in February 2022, something as simple as deploying US airborne forces to Kyiv for exercises could have prevented the war. Biden chose to avoid confrontation, and here we are now, in the fourth year of the war.
- fifilura 1y ago
  It is only reasonable that Ukraine also plans for a future without war (as a sovereign state). And they will need an air force. And it seems natural that they seek alternatives from buying airplanes from the Moscow state. And even if they wanted to buy airplanes from the Kremlin, they may very well refuse to sell.
- madspindel 1y ago
  > Bad: this is likely to cause an escalation in tensions in the Ukraine-Russia situation. As a Swede I can tell you my country will support Ukraine until victory. Russia can stop the escalation be getting the hell out of Ukraine.
- general1465 1y ago
  Russia has nowhere to escalate, it can only start dropping nukes, but that will piss off China and India. Not because they would be so worried about Ukrainians, but because Russia would degrade nuclear weapons from strategic asset into a tactical weapons on level of Iskander. And Russian war industry very much stands on Chinese dual use imports. Without them, their capacity to produce drones would be non existent - Shaheds are using parts from China, fiber spools are coming from China....

16 points by guerrilla 1y ago

It appears the idea is to fund this using frozen Russian funds in EU. Zelenskyy and Kristersson (Swedish PM) both made a point of saying they are travelling to Brussels tonight to attempt to make this happen. (I watched the press conference stream from Saab/Linköping. It's available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF6PUxSPEKU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF6PUxSPEKU)

mikece 1y ago

Good: the Gripen is a fantastic plane and I'm happy that Saab is making sales of this platform. If it were not for the economic terrorism/influence of the US then Saab would be selling a lot more of these planes to countries who are currently being forced into buying the F-35. Bad: this is likely to cause an escalation in tensions in the Ukraine-Russia situation.

lysace 1y ago
> this is likely to cause an escalation in tensions in the Ukraine-Russia situation. ? These countries are at full war. The only NBCs the Russians aren't using is their nuclear and biological arsenal. They are using their chemical weapons.
- guerrilla 1y ago
  Not only that but Russia is constantly violating NATO airspace, flying drones over our airports, sabotaging things and getting caught for spying. Talk to Russia about escalation. Check the map in today's update: https://understandingwar.org/research/russia-ukraine/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-october-21-2025/ https://understandingwar.org/research/russia-ukraine/russian...
- mikece 1y ago
  I had not heard that. What chemical weapons are they using? As for "they are at war, what do you mean 'escalations'" I'm referring to western countries, including the US, giving Ukraine the ability to make deep strikes into Russia that could provoke Russia in declaring officially what has been the de facto case for a while: it's not fighting Ukraine, it's fighting NATO and NATO is striking through the Ukrainians but Russia has not yet struck back at NATO. Forgive me for hoping that we might be able to find peace and avoid the deaths of hundreds of millions of people by not ratcheting things up in Ukraine more than it already is.
  - lysace 1y ago
    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2025/05/20/chemical-weapons-eu-sanctions-three-entities-in-the-russian-armed-forces-over-use-of-chemical-weapons-in-ukraine/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2025... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#Use_during_the_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_weapons_of_mass_des... The "peace" word in this context is not really what it seems like. The "peace" movement in our countries is often of full of at least former Soviet and Russian funding. Essentially tankies. I think you can imagine their goals.
    - mikece 1y ago
      I'm a US military veteran and nobody is paying me to speak one way or another about any of this. I just see the minimization and avoidance of war as preferrable to bullets flying and people dying. Yes, that is happening now in a limited context (Ukraine and Russia) but and I hope that comes to an end before it spills over to a full and formal NATO vs. Russia (and China?) engagement.
      - mopsi 1y ago
        One-sided avoidance of war can be counterproductive and make everything worse. Hundreds of thousands of people have died in Ukraine since 2022 because the response to the initial invasion in 2014 focused too much on avoiding confrontation, which was taken as a sign of weakness to exploit. Up until the day of the invasion in February 2022, something as simple as deploying US airborne forces to Kyiv for exercises could have prevented the war. Biden chose to avoid confrontation, and here we are now, in the fourth year of the war.
fifilura 1y ago
It is only reasonable that Ukraine also plans for a future without war (as a sovereign state). And they will need an air force. And it seems natural that they seek alternatives from buying airplanes from the Moscow state. And even if they wanted to buy airplanes from the Kremlin, they may very well refuse to sell.
madspindel 1y ago
> Bad: this is likely to cause an escalation in tensions in the Ukraine-Russia situation. As a Swede I can tell you my country will support Ukraine until victory. Russia can stop the escalation be getting the hell out of Ukraine.
general1465 1y ago
Russia has nowhere to escalate, it can only start dropping nukes, but that will piss off China and India. Not because they would be so worried about Ukrainians, but because Russia would degrade nuclear weapons from strategic asset into a tactical weapons on level of Iskander. And Russian war industry very much stands on Chinese dual use imports. Without them, their capacity to produce drones would be non existent - Shaheds are using parts from China, fiber spools are coming from China....