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Even if not super fine grained, I think that OpenBSD’s pledge is really nicely done. Next after that I’d vote for FreeBSD’s capsicum.

hypeatei 1y ago
OpenBSDs pledge is so simple and nice to use. I really wish Linux would incorporate it. Seccomp is a nightmare to implement.
- rootnod3 1y ago
  I'd rather have a simple coarse-grained mechanism than whatever feverdream that seccomp, selinux and apparmor are. A convoluted mess incorporating almost Turing complete languages that are just asking to shoot yourself in the foot a mile deep. The simplicity of pledge is good enough for 99% of use-cases I'd wager AND easy to add to existing code.
- eikenberry 1y ago
  There is a port... https://github.com/jart/pledge https://justine.lol/pledge/
  - hypeatei 1y ago
    That uses seccomp under the hood and requires a custom libc, I think? Definitely a nice project, but I don't know if I'd use it in production.
charcircuit 1y ago
I disagree. Pledge requires every app to OPT IN to security. This means that most apps won't do it, and the ones that do will likely be lazy and restrict their usage to what they use before and won't do the work of rearchitecting things.
- hypeatei 1y ago
  So we shouldn't provide simple hardening tools because it won't be used or applied how you'd like in 100% of software? This mindset in security circles really needs to stop. If a piece of important or foundational software wants to lock itself down today, look at the myriad of convoluted "solutions" mentioned in a sibling comment. If you wanted to discourage progress in this area, that's how you'd design something. I'm not assuming malice, obviously, but it's certainly a product of the endless nitpicking and "not good enough, doesn't cover <niche usecase>" type of thinking. EDIT: > and the ones that do will likely be lazy I'd argue the opposite, any developer taking the time to add some pledge calls to their code is probably mindful of security and wants to improve it. If you wanted to be lazy, you'd just... not implement pledge at all since it'd get in your way and be too restrictive.
  - charcircuit 1y ago
    It's not that we shouldn't provide it, but it doesn't make sense invest into when OpenBSDs security is so far behind the rest of the industry. A program being able to steal your .ssh keys without you knows is unacceptable. Not only that but programs can keylog you, take pictures of what you are doing, or take remote control of your computer.
    - munchlax 1y ago
      I doubt you could keylog my openbsd server that I remote into over ssh or serial. I also doubt you can take pictures of me when it doesn't have cameras attached. If it did and you were to take pictures, you'd see some blinking leds and cables all day. And I highly doubt you could take remote control even if I had openssh open to the public. Perhaps your industry just doesn't care about the same things the openbsd community does. Edit: I missed the ssh key stealing. My keys are always encrypted.
      - charcircuit 1y ago
        Bash aliases and PATH aren't protected so malware can change ssh to something else and steal your encryption password to decrypt your keys.

hypeatei 1y ago

OpenBSDs pledge is so simple and nice to use. I really wish Linux would incorporate it. Seccomp is a nightmare to implement.

rootnod3 1y ago
I'd rather have a simple coarse-grained mechanism than whatever feverdream that seccomp, selinux and apparmor are. A convoluted mess incorporating almost Turing complete languages that are just asking to shoot yourself in the foot a mile deep. The simplicity of pledge is good enough for 99% of use-cases I'd wager AND easy to add to existing code.
eikenberry 1y ago
There is a port... https://github.com/jart/pledge https://justine.lol/pledge/
- hypeatei 1y ago
  That uses seccomp under the hood and requires a custom libc, I think? Definitely a nice project, but I don't know if I'd use it in production.

charcircuit 1y ago

I disagree. Pledge requires every app to OPT IN to security. This means that most apps won't do it, and the ones that do will likely be lazy and restrict their usage to what they use before and won't do the work of rearchitecting things.

hypeatei 1y ago
So we shouldn't provide simple hardening tools because it won't be used or applied how you'd like in 100% of software? This mindset in security circles really needs to stop. If a piece of important or foundational software wants to lock itself down today, look at the myriad of convoluted "solutions" mentioned in a sibling comment. If you wanted to discourage progress in this area, that's how you'd design something. I'm not assuming malice, obviously, but it's certainly a product of the endless nitpicking and "not good enough, doesn't cover <niche usecase>" type of thinking. EDIT: > and the ones that do will likely be lazy I'd argue the opposite, any developer taking the time to add some pledge calls to their code is probably mindful of security and wants to improve it. If you wanted to be lazy, you'd just... not implement pledge at all since it'd get in your way and be too restrictive.
- charcircuit 1y ago
  It's not that we shouldn't provide it, but it doesn't make sense invest into when OpenBSDs security is so far behind the rest of the industry. A program being able to steal your .ssh keys without you knows is unacceptable. Not only that but programs can keylog you, take pictures of what you are doing, or take remote control of your computer.
  - munchlax 1y ago
    I doubt you could keylog my openbsd server that I remote into over ssh or serial. I also doubt you can take pictures of me when it doesn't have cameras attached. If it did and you were to take pictures, you'd see some blinking leds and cables all day. And I highly doubt you could take remote control even if I had openssh open to the public. Perhaps your industry just doesn't care about the same things the openbsd community does. Edit: I missed the ssh key stealing. My keys are always encrypted.
    - charcircuit 1y ago
      Bash aliases and PATH aren't protected so malware can change ssh to something else and steal your encryption password to decrypt your keys.