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The Bantu people have been in the southern African region longer than the Roman empire has existed in continental Europe. So, why aren't they not considered nat

by yardie 1y ago

The Bantu people have been in the southern African region longer than the Roman empire has existed in continental Europe. So, why aren't they not considered native? No one considers the Roman empire not native to Europe.

andsoitis 1y ago
> So, why aren't they not considered native? I didn't say that explicitly, but you are right that I'm implying that it is customary to use "native people" to refer to the original occupants of a territory, not subsequent waves of humans. For context: a) Khoisan (20,000 - 30,000 years) b) Bantu-speaking groups (1,500 - 2,000 years) c) white South Africans (300 - 400 years) I guess you could say that there is a "degree" of nativeness, where a > b > c, but I would question the motives for doing so. > No one considers the Roman empire not native to Europe That's drawing arbitrary lines to suit your argument. Nobody would claim that the Romans were native to Gaul, for example. I'm trying to understand what is the reason behind your points, but am struggling to do so. The less generous interpretation of your angel is that you're trying to say that white South Africans or Indian South Africans or Chinese South Africans are less native than black South Africans or that black South Africans are more native than the Khoisan. I don't know that you are saying this, but your argument does seem to point in that direction and is divisive, FWIW.
- yardie 1y ago
  I never brought up who is considered native. The intermediate poster brough that up. >> Native South African is a debatable word. There has been a recent right-wing movement in South Africa to politicize the Bantu migrations to minimize the impact of European colonialization and ultimately apartheid.
  - andsoitis 1y ago
    > There has been a recent right-wing movement in South Africa to politicize the Bantu migrations to minimize the impact of European colonialization and ultimately apartheid. Has there? I was in South Africa twice earlier this year and didn’t see anything in the news or in public. Do you have a reference that illustrates what you have in mind?

by yardie 1y ago

andsoitis 1y ago

> So, why aren't they not considered native? I didn't say that explicitly, but you are right that I'm implying that it is customary to use "native people" to refer to the original occupants of a territory, not subsequent waves of humans. For context: a) Khoisan (20,000 - 30,000 years) b) Bantu-speaking groups (1,500 - 2,000 years) c) white South Africans (300 - 400 years) I guess you could say that there is a "degree" of nativeness, where a > b > c, but I would question the motives for doing so. > No one considers the Roman empire not native to Europe That's drawing arbitrary lines to suit your argument. Nobody would claim that the Romans were native to Gaul, for example. I'm trying to understand what is the reason behind your points, but am struggling to do so. The less generous interpretation of your angel is that you're trying to say that white South Africans or Indian South Africans or Chinese South Africans are less native than black South Africans or that black South Africans are more native than the Khoisan. I don't know that you are saying this, but your argument does seem to point in that direction and is divisive, FWIW.

yardie 1y ago
I never brought up who is considered native. The intermediate poster brough that up. >> Native South African is a debatable word. There has been a recent right-wing movement in South Africa to politicize the Bantu migrations to minimize the impact of European colonialization and ultimately apartheid.
- andsoitis 1y ago
  > There has been a recent right-wing movement in South Africa to politicize the Bantu migrations to minimize the impact of European colonialization and ultimately apartheid. Has there? I was in South Africa twice earlier this year and didn’t see anything in the news or in public. Do you have a reference that illustrates what you have in mind?