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Law doesn't seek to punish but to rehabilitate. Act of taking freedom away from the criminal is violent enough. Treating them badly is just a sign of unfair/poo
by tauwauwau 1y ago
Law doesn't seek to punish but to rehabilitate. Act of taking freedom away from the criminal is violent enough. Treating them badly is just a sign of unfair/poor society that cannot maintain (afford to keep) it's promise to be civil to all citizens.
- guerrilla 1y agoYour confounding how things should be with how they are. These are two distinct philosophies, only one of which is relevant in most of the real world, unfortunately.
- rorylawless 1y agoPunishment and rehabilitation aren’t mutually exclusive. Arguably, the punishment aspect is served by the removal of freedoms that being locked in prison entails. Rehabilitation can be any number of things that the prisoner does while in prison.
- Tepix 1y ago> Law doesn't seek to punish but to rehabilitate. That's unfortunately not universally true. This is most obvious when considering the death penalty. Norway exemplifies a rehabilitative justice model and it is effective, evidenced by low recidivism rates.
- NaomiLehman 1y agoVery few first-world countries have death penalties?
- Tepix 1y agoVery few countries in general.
- RestlessMind 1y agoBut most of the people live in countries with death penalties. All the top 6 countries by population have death penalty and only 4 out of biggest 17 countries do not have death penalty. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_country#/media/File:Capital_punishment_in_the_world.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_country#... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen...
- master-lincoln 1y agoafaik only the USA and Japan
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- Andrex 1y agoAnd not all of the US, just a bit over half (27 states).
- sfdlkj3jk342a 1y agoSingapore and China
- zabzonk 1y agoand thailand
- amiga386 1y agoThere are 53 states (out of 193 UN states + 2 observer states) that have not abolished, and continue to use the death penalty. "First-world" is Cold War terminology meaning Western countries and their allies, as opposed to second-world Warsaw Pact states and their allies, versus third-world non-aligned states. This would include death penalty states like Pakistan and Iran, who at one point were British dominions. If we instead mean "developed countries" (as defined by the IMF), then 4 out of 60 developed countries have not abolished the death penalty: they are the United States, Japan, Singapore and Taiwan. The other 49 states continuing to use the death penalty (including China) are not considered "developed countries" by the IMF. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_country
- wisty 1y agoMaybe Norway prisons are just really nasty. No drugs, no fights, no conflict with the wardens, just boredom and then solitary confinement if you do anything that's "not OK".
- Teever 1y agoA death penalty doesn't have to intrinsically be about punishment. It can be about removing the threat that a person poses from society permanently. It can be about making the victims feel a sense of relief and justice.
- bagels 1y agoThe point being made is that the death penalty does not serve a rehabilitation purpose for a pretty obvious reason.
- rat9988 1y ago> Law doesn't seek to punish Then who is tasked with delivering justice to the victims?
- n4r9 1y agoMust justice include punishment? If someone hits me, I'd much rather they take responsibility, apologise, and work on themselves to become a better person, than simply get locked up for a while.
- philipallstar 1y agoThose are not the only two options that they can choose from. And being hit is a very minimal example. Would you say the same for rape? No punishment required; just apologise and work on yourself?
- thih9 1y agoYou skipped the “take responsibility”. In case of a more serious crime a simple apology is indeed not enough. But it should still be possible to proceed with something more productive for everyone than putting the perpetrator behind bars. As you say, there are many options.
- philipallstar 1y agoTake responsibility is just a euphemism, though. For some people that is someone going behind bars. What do you actually mean?
- lostlogin 1y agoApply the same thought process to ‘punishment’. Those who spend a lot of time in prison seem to come out worse and reoffend. How is that helpful?
- 1y ago
- saoh 1y agoRehabilitate and/or deter. The extent to which it is either the former or the latter depends on the country. That also determines whether or not "treating them badly" should be a feature of the justice system.
- ecshafer 1y agoI would like a mixture of punishment and rehabilitation. If some kid shoplifts, then the balance should be in favor of rehabilitation. If someone commits treason or murder, then that balance is entirely on punishment, there is not rehabilitation left.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago> Law doesn't seek to punish but to rehabilitate The purposes are punishment are deterrence, retribution, and rehabilitation [1]. (Incapacitation is also typically considered in sentencing.) The potential deterrence and retributive benefits of cruel have been known for ages. It’s why jailers did it. Those potential benefits are balanced against rehabilitation. But that doesn’t make it the supreme consideration, particularly for crimes of corruption. [1] https://web.uncg.edu/dcl/courses/vicecrime/pdf/m7.pdf https://web.uncg.edu/dcl/courses/vicecrime/pdf/m7.pdf
- wtcactus 1y agoAn eye for an eye makes the all world go blind. But, one eye for both eyes quickly renders the all bad actors of society blind and incapable of harming the law abiding citizens. It’s not fancy around these parts to give the example of El Salvador, because most of us live in a very comfortable bubble and can pretend we support all these fancy thing of “reintegration and not punishment” but go ask what the people in El Salvador think about how their country got rid of criminal violence.
- sdsd 1y agoSo the idea is this will rehabilitate Sarkozy? Do you believe that this experience will rehabilitate Sarkozy, or even that he's an active threat to commit more crimes in the future? It seems like the only conceivable social benefit of incarcerating him is to punish him for corruption as a deterrent to others. But his luxury prison room probably won't do that, so it's basically just an expensive legal formality to satisfy public demands for "justice" (ie, retribution for wrongdoing)
- aerostable_slug 1y agoIt's not a luxury room like drug lords have had in corrupt countries. He's in the VIP wing, which means life generally sucks except he won't have to worry about random violence or gang politics. It's a lot better than normal prisoners get, but it's hardly a vacation. I agree that the point is punishment and deterrence to other public officials, proving no one is truly out of reach of the law.
- aoeusnth1 1y agoFuture corruption is less likely if punishment is expected. Not that complicated.
- rcxdude 1y agoNot entirely. There are a few different motivations for punishment: one, is to act as a deterrant (people won't do the crime because they fear the punishment. Tends to work best when people think they are likely to be caught), two is to act as a form of correction/rehabilitation: (after one punishment people are less likely to do it again. Tends to have problems when the punishment sets people up to be more likely to commit crime, by either putting them in contact with other criminals or further pushing them into desperate circumstances after the punishment), third is as a sense of justice, to some extent as revenge. The punishment of an offender can help the victims on an emotional level and also foster trust in the system (requires that the punishments are viewed as just and proportional). Lastly, in extreme cases, as a form of protection/prevention: by removing the person from being able to commit any further crimes.
- pyrale 11mo agoI would be fine with it if all prisoners had similar conditions, which they do not. Also he and his supports have always criticized prisons for being "too luxurious", so hearing them complaining about his conditions now is infuriating. As for rehabilitation, there is little hope for him. Prisons also serve to isolate individuals which are dangerous to the society, which he is (he is currently investigated for attempting to rig his current trial, something for which he was already condemned in the past).