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Nice try. Maybe when Democrats decide to uphold their own values and defend the working class, people will come back in from the cold. Until then, burning it al

Nice try. Maybe when Democrats decide to uphold their own values and defend the working class, people will come back in from the cold. Until then, burning it all down is perfectly understandable. Betrayal stings and vengeance sometimes takes the form of scorched earth. At least with the Republican Party people know what they're getting. As long as the Democratic Party keeps its current shape, people will continue to distrust it.

consumer451 1y ago
> Nice try. Thanks, wish I could say the same to you my friend. What does the Democratic party have to do with the current US government, when the other party controls all three branches of the federal government? Unless I am misreading you, this seems like a complete non-sequitur.
- jazzyjackson 1y ago
  Republicans won because Democrats sold out, and Americans feeling hurt by the powers that be would rather throw a wrench in the works (or a hand grenade in the case of Donald Trump) than keep voting Democrat At least that's my interpretation
  - consumer451 1y ago
    I agree that the establishment Dems would rather risk a Trump, than a Sanders. The fact that any of them have the gall to show their faces after the last 20 years of meh/pure failure is astounding. Where is the project 2028 plan? Crickets. I would also like to point out that everyone else fell for anti-woke (McCarthyism spelled differently), fReE SpEaCh!, and Haitians eating your pets. So yeah, it's 100% the Dems' fault cause Genocide Joe! The sooner we all admit that we are all easily programmed meat machines, myself included, the sooner we can move beyond the current insanity. We all got played. Let's all admit it together. Is that really too much to ask?
    - bigbadfeline 1y ago
      > The sooner we all admit that we are all easily programmed meat machines All is big word and needs to be used properly, like - we are not all the same. > the sooner we can move beyond the current insanity. To where? Historically it's been, meet the new insanity the same as the old insanity. > We all got played. Let's all admit it together. Is that really too much to ask? Before, after or without an admission, those who did get played together with those who didn't, would be entitled to ask "And then what?"
      - consumer451 1y ago
        > we are not all the same. I beg to differ. Far from claiming "both sides" or some similar malarkey: yet we are all humans, we all have our triggers, we are all easily fooled. This is as close to enlightenment as I will ever get. If we cannot even admit this commonality, then we will continue to be divided and concurred by certifiable idiots.
        bigbadfeline 1y ago
        > If we cannot even admit this commonality, then we will continue to be divided and concurred by certifiable idiots. To continue my thought, we aren't all the same because: 1. Some can admit that they've been played, some can't. 2. Some think that fooling is easy to do, others are aware of the amount of effort and money thrown into it. 3. Some understand that people are different, some don't and hope for an imaginary uniform response. > Far from claiming "both sides" or some similar malarkey The question is, can the evidence for that be ignored as "malarkey" without careful investigation? Is there any rational basis for such an approach? Outwardly, the two sides are not the same, they act according to different and rather rigid programs. However, before counting the number of bugs in each and assessing their scope, we can't claim that the sides are materially different.
        consumer451 1y ago
        Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I have been spending a lot of time thinking about this. I have personal opinions/biases on all of this, and it seems to be the issue of our time. There was a quote from a Montenegrin political blog-spammer back in 2015-2016 that has been stuck in my mind ever since. He lived in this village full of other nerds, and they made money by getting clicks based on political posts aimed at the USA, as that was where the adsense money was best. The village had a crazy amount of nice cars, and that brought international journalist interest. In an interview, the guy said "The Trump people are great, they will literally believe anything. The Sanders people are annoying, because they always want sources." Don't shoot the messenger, that was the reporting. Back then, I was not very charitable on the topic. Later, I saw this happen in my own family. Even later, on the other side, I saw "genocide Joe" people on the left, under utterly insane banners like "trans jihad." I then became more charitable towards all people who had fallen under the spell of propaganda. The right in the USA is objectively entirely off the rails, 100% vibes, no sources. Every single talking point turns out to be a lie after you do 5 seconds of research. But the voters believe that they are protecting their families, maybe they are fed shit like "Haitians are eating your pets," but they are being played by assholes appealing to their misguided protective instincts. But, even young trans Americans can get talked into thinking that they support "jihad" by some Twitch streamer, and not vote at all...? That's the kind of anti-self interest voting pattern that I had always only assigned to to right! Except in the Genocide Joe/Trans Jihad case, it's far worse! Well, that's when I affirmed my belief that we are all easily programmed meat machines, across the board. Some more easily than others, some for noble reasons (based on my beliefs), and many more for dark reasons... but man, I am going to try to bring us all back together every chance I get. I won't get everyone, I might not get anyone, but even getting a single person to stop and think is worth a thousand typed comments.
- AnimalMuppet 1y ago
  It's how we got here. We had four years to know who Trump is. We (collectively) voted for him anyway. Why? At least partly because the Democrats have totally abandoned being the party of the working class. Their message for the last ten years (plus or minus some) has been that if you think that an unborn baby deserves legal protection, if you don't think that trans people belong in womens' restrooms and on womens' sports teams, if you don't think that gay marriage is a good idea, then you are an irredeemable moral leper, and their goal is a complete destruction of your culture. If you're, say, poor and white and blue-collar, they still are totally against you, even though you're the people that they have, historically, represented. A bunch of those people voted for Trump (or didn't vote at all), knowing what Trump was. They voted for the guy who at least pretended to care about them. And, really, why did they expect a different outcome? That's what the Democratic Party has to do with the current US government. Them abandoning their core constituency is a critical enabling step for us to be where we are. Does that make it all their fault? No. But wow, did they ever bungle both the 2016 and 2024 campaigns.
  - intermerda 1y ago
    > At least partly because the Democrats have totally abandoned being the party of the working class. What would it take for the Democrats to become the party of the working class? Do you think raising the minimum wage, universal pre-k and childcare, paid family and medical leave, ACA expansion, etc. are working class policies? Either Republicans must be the party of the working class or being "pro working class" isn't necessary to win the elections. Which one is it? > A bunch of those people voted for Trump (or didn't vote at all), knowing what Trump was. They voted for the guy who at least pretended to care about them. Tons of farmers, small business owners, federal workers, women who believed IVF would be free would disagree with you on the first part. And for the "pretend" part, you mean lie, right? So do you think Democrats need to start outright lying?
  - fzeroracer 1y ago
    > Their message for the last ten years (plus or minus some) has been that if you think that an unborn baby deserves legal protection, if you don't think that trans people belong in womens' restrooms and on womens' sports teams, if you don't think that gay marriage is a good idea, then you are an irredeemable moral leper, and their goal is a complete destruction of your culture. If you're, say, poor and white and blue-collar, they still are totally against you, even though you're the people that they have, historically, represented. The opposite of your point is that I recall the GOP frequently calling anyone in favor of abortions murderers, people who are gay or transgender pedophiles and that non-whites are destroying our nation. This isn't even a recent phenomenon either, this was all stuff I heard decades ago just slightly less overt. Mind you, I don't disagree that the Democratic Party is a complete waste, because they are. But you're arguing simultaneously that they had toxic core principles which alienated their voting base, but the reality is that they've never had any principles at all. They've had no issue for as long as I've been alive negotiating and watering down their platform into absolutely nothing for the sake of trying to cater to the people who vote for the GOP which is the actual reason why we're here today. And their plans for the future mostly involve doing the same thing: making concessions on abortion, throwing minorities under the bus etc for the sake of trying to appeal to people that will sooner vote for Bootstomper Jr provided that they make a pinky promise that they won't stomp on their head too hard.
- intermerda 1y ago
  > What does the Democratic party have to do with the current US government Murc's Law - The widespread assumption that only Democrats have any agency or causal influence over American politics.
- crossroadsguy 1y ago
  Oh boy! As someone from another democracy (so far) who saw it happen exactly like this slightly over a decade ago, I'd say your Democratic Party has everything to do with it (just like our own equivalent). Republicans didn't win; Democrats handed that win on a platter, and that too when they had seen it play out once already just one term ago! This is the kind of politely dismissive language that pushes the other side even further :)
  - array_key_first 1y ago
    Democrats can't be expected to be the only functioning people in politics and the sole thing holding society together. When Dems lose, its Dems fault. When Dems win, its Dems fault. When repubs win, it's also Dems fault. When repubs do something bad - believe it or not, Dems fault. Republican representatives are not stupid babies. They are grown men and women. They are intentionally fucking Americans up the ass. It's not an "oopsy!" situation. Everyone needs to take some accountability.

consumer451 1y ago

> Nice try. Thanks, wish I could say the same to you my friend. What does the Democratic party have to do with the current US government, when the other party controls all three branches of the federal government? Unless I am misreading you, this seems like a complete non-sequitur.

jazzyjackson 1y ago
Republicans won because Democrats sold out, and Americans feeling hurt by the powers that be would rather throw a wrench in the works (or a hand grenade in the case of Donald Trump) than keep voting Democrat At least that's my interpretation
- consumer451 1y ago
  I agree that the establishment Dems would rather risk a Trump, than a Sanders. The fact that any of them have the gall to show their faces after the last 20 years of meh/pure failure is astounding. Where is the project 2028 plan? Crickets. I would also like to point out that everyone else fell for anti-woke (McCarthyism spelled differently), fReE SpEaCh!, and Haitians eating your pets. So yeah, it's 100% the Dems' fault cause Genocide Joe! The sooner we all admit that we are all easily programmed meat machines, myself included, the sooner we can move beyond the current insanity. We all got played. Let's all admit it together. Is that really too much to ask?
  - bigbadfeline 1y ago
    > The sooner we all admit that we are all easily programmed meat machines All is big word and needs to be used properly, like - we are not all the same. > the sooner we can move beyond the current insanity. To where? Historically it's been, meet the new insanity the same as the old insanity. > We all got played. Let's all admit it together. Is that really too much to ask? Before, after or without an admission, those who did get played together with those who didn't, would be entitled to ask "And then what?"
    - consumer451 1y ago
      > we are not all the same. I beg to differ. Far from claiming "both sides" or some similar malarkey: yet we are all humans, we all have our triggers, we are all easily fooled. This is as close to enlightenment as I will ever get. If we cannot even admit this commonality, then we will continue to be divided and concurred by certifiable idiots.
      - bigbadfeline 1y ago
        > If we cannot even admit this commonality, then we will continue to be divided and concurred by certifiable idiots. To continue my thought, we aren't all the same because: 1. Some can admit that they've been played, some can't. 2. Some think that fooling is easy to do, others are aware of the amount of effort and money thrown into it. 3. Some understand that people are different, some don't and hope for an imaginary uniform response. > Far from claiming "both sides" or some similar malarkey The question is, can the evidence for that be ignored as "malarkey" without careful investigation? Is there any rational basis for such an approach? Outwardly, the two sides are not the same, they act according to different and rather rigid programs. However, before counting the number of bugs in each and assessing their scope, we can't claim that the sides are materially different.
        consumer451 1y ago
        Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I have been spending a lot of time thinking about this. I have personal opinions/biases on all of this, and it seems to be the issue of our time. There was a quote from a Montenegrin political blog-spammer back in 2015-2016 that has been stuck in my mind ever since. He lived in this village full of other nerds, and they made money by getting clicks based on political posts aimed at the USA, as that was where the adsense money was best. The village had a crazy amount of nice cars, and that brought international journalist interest. In an interview, the guy said "The Trump people are great, they will literally believe anything. The Sanders people are annoying, because they always want sources." Don't shoot the messenger, that was the reporting. Back then, I was not very charitable on the topic. Later, I saw this happen in my own family. Even later, on the other side, I saw "genocide Joe" people on the left, under utterly insane banners like "trans jihad." I then became more charitable towards all people who had fallen under the spell of propaganda. The right in the USA is objectively entirely off the rails, 100% vibes, no sources. Every single talking point turns out to be a lie after you do 5 seconds of research. But the voters believe that they are protecting their families, maybe they are fed shit like "Haitians are eating your pets," but they are being played by assholes appealing to their misguided protective instincts. But, even young trans Americans can get talked into thinking that they support "jihad" by some Twitch streamer, and not vote at all...? That's the kind of anti-self interest voting pattern that I had always only assigned to to right! Except in the Genocide Joe/Trans Jihad case, it's far worse! Well, that's when I affirmed my belief that we are all easily programmed meat machines, across the board. Some more easily than others, some for noble reasons (based on my beliefs), and many more for dark reasons... but man, I am going to try to bring us all back together every chance I get. I won't get everyone, I might not get anyone, but even getting a single person to stop and think is worth a thousand typed comments.
AnimalMuppet 1y ago
It's how we got here. We had four years to know who Trump is. We (collectively) voted for him anyway. Why? At least partly because the Democrats have totally abandoned being the party of the working class. Their message for the last ten years (plus or minus some) has been that if you think that an unborn baby deserves legal protection, if you don't think that trans people belong in womens' restrooms and on womens' sports teams, if you don't think that gay marriage is a good idea, then you are an irredeemable moral leper, and their goal is a complete destruction of your culture. If you're, say, poor and white and blue-collar, they still are totally against you, even though you're the people that they have, historically, represented. A bunch of those people voted for Trump (or didn't vote at all), knowing what Trump was. They voted for the guy who at least pretended to care about them. And, really, why did they expect a different outcome? That's what the Democratic Party has to do with the current US government. Them abandoning their core constituency is a critical enabling step for us to be where we are. Does that make it all their fault? No. But wow, did they ever bungle both the 2016 and 2024 campaigns.
- intermerda 1y ago
  > At least partly because the Democrats have totally abandoned being the party of the working class. What would it take for the Democrats to become the party of the working class? Do you think raising the minimum wage, universal pre-k and childcare, paid family and medical leave, ACA expansion, etc. are working class policies? Either Republicans must be the party of the working class or being "pro working class" isn't necessary to win the elections. Which one is it? > A bunch of those people voted for Trump (or didn't vote at all), knowing what Trump was. They voted for the guy who at least pretended to care about them. Tons of farmers, small business owners, federal workers, women who believed IVF would be free would disagree with you on the first part. And for the "pretend" part, you mean lie, right? So do you think Democrats need to start outright lying?
- fzeroracer 1y ago
  > Their message for the last ten years (plus or minus some) has been that if you think that an unborn baby deserves legal protection, if you don't think that trans people belong in womens' restrooms and on womens' sports teams, if you don't think that gay marriage is a good idea, then you are an irredeemable moral leper, and their goal is a complete destruction of your culture. If you're, say, poor and white and blue-collar, they still are totally against you, even though you're the people that they have, historically, represented. The opposite of your point is that I recall the GOP frequently calling anyone in favor of abortions murderers, people who are gay or transgender pedophiles and that non-whites are destroying our nation. This isn't even a recent phenomenon either, this was all stuff I heard decades ago just slightly less overt. Mind you, I don't disagree that the Democratic Party is a complete waste, because they are. But you're arguing simultaneously that they had toxic core principles which alienated their voting base, but the reality is that they've never had any principles at all. They've had no issue for as long as I've been alive negotiating and watering down their platform into absolutely nothing for the sake of trying to cater to the people who vote for the GOP which is the actual reason why we're here today. And their plans for the future mostly involve doing the same thing: making concessions on abortion, throwing minorities under the bus etc for the sake of trying to appeal to people that will sooner vote for Bootstomper Jr provided that they make a pinky promise that they won't stomp on their head too hard.
intermerda 1y ago
> What does the Democratic party have to do with the current US government Murc's Law - The widespread assumption that only Democrats have any agency or causal influence over American politics.
crossroadsguy 1y ago
Oh boy! As someone from another democracy (so far) who saw it happen exactly like this slightly over a decade ago, I'd say your Democratic Party has everything to do with it (just like our own equivalent). Republicans didn't win; Democrats handed that win on a platter, and that too when they had seen it play out once already just one term ago! This is the kind of politely dismissive language that pushes the other side even further :)
- array_key_first 1y ago
  Democrats can't be expected to be the only functioning people in politics and the sole thing holding society together. When Dems lose, its Dems fault. When Dems win, its Dems fault. When repubs win, it's also Dems fault. When repubs do something bad - believe it or not, Dems fault. Republican representatives are not stupid babies. They are grown men and women. They are intentionally fucking Americans up the ass. It's not an "oopsy!" situation. Everyone needs to take some accountability.