4 ms·

Why “probably bad” though. If you plug that exact query into Google, numerous recent studies will tell you that it is probably good for long term knee health to

Why “probably bad” though. If you plug that exact query into Google, numerous recent studies will tell you that it is probably good for long term knee health too (stress builds resilience unless prevented recovery time). Which studies are probably right?

Root_Denied 1y ago
"Probably" is being used here because the body doesn't have a really good way to rebuild cartilage, especially as you age, due to lack of blood flow into places like the patella. Knee and hip replacements are on the rise (https://oip.com/the-lowdown-on-the-uprise-of-knee-and-hip-replacements/ https://oip.com/the-lowdown-on-the-uprise-of-knee-and-hip-re...) as well in Boomers, indicating that age related degeneration (with or wihtout a history of running) is fairly universal and expected. There's absolutely some perfect middle ground of "just enough" running that will strengthen, but not deteriorate too quickly, your knees - but again where that point is will vary by individual. It also may not be something that can be determined except in hindsight, partly because medical professionals generally don't start monitoring cartilage until the person is reporting pain or mobility issues (or a known condition they're checking for symptoms of). Point being that statistically there are useful trends in aggregate data that can be observed, but, paradoxically, those trends don't necessarily translate to good general medical guidance. One counterexample where those trends do translate would be something like that peanut allergy study from 2015 that was linked on HN recently about introducing allergens earlier and frequently to babies, resulting in fewer teen/adult allergies.
- manwe150 1y ago
  > because the body doesn't have a really good way to rebuild cartilage Okay, but I’m still noting that if you google this exact claim, numerous recent studies found that running is found to build cartilage, contrary to past assumptions
president_zippy 1y ago
That's one of the factors I analyzed in my dinky little post-bacc night school undergrad assignment. The answer I came to is "insufficient data" because none of the longitudinal studies bother with people over 65, which is the interesting part. My high school XC coach, for example retired 2 years after I graduated in his 60s (before quitting the team because he loved running too much to be a 250lb offensive lineman) and is still running 24 hour runs and multi-day 500k races well into his late 70s without any semblance of knee problem. Although he played D2-level football in the 1960s, I wouldn't consider him a genetic aberration immune to commonplace orthopedic conditions like arthritis, bone bruises, or stress fractures. After a few years of not running, I also let myself go and ended up getting passed in a 5k by an 80 year-old woman about a decade ago. I have seen something with my eyes that flies in the face of the "running is bad for your knees" mind virus, and it would be interesting to discuss if there were any longitudinal studies for people old enough to draw Social Security. I don't even think ultramarathon running is worse for your knees than being >200lbs, but I can't find the data that I think should be required before an orthopedist gives any advice one way or another. I admittedly came into the assignment with an agenda because I thought the "most people should not run because knees" myth was created by people who don't run to deny personal responsibility for their health and discourage other people from believing they can improve their lives if they work for it. Note: offensive linemen were a lot smaller prior to about 1985 than the 310lb behemoths out there today. If you like football, thank Lawrence Taylor for that evolution in the game.

Root_Denied 1y ago

"Probably" is being used here because the body doesn't have a really good way to rebuild cartilage, especially as you age, due to lack of blood flow into places like the patella. Knee and hip replacements are on the rise (https://oip.com/the-lowdown-on-the-uprise-of-knee-and-hip-replacements/ https://oip.com/the-lowdown-on-the-uprise-of-knee-and-hip-re...) as well in Boomers, indicating that age related degeneration (with or wihtout a history of running) is fairly universal and expected. There's absolutely some perfect middle ground of "just enough" running that will strengthen, but not deteriorate too quickly, your knees - but again where that point is will vary by individual. It also may not be something that can be determined except in hindsight, partly because medical professionals generally don't start monitoring cartilage until the person is reporting pain or mobility issues (or a known condition they're checking for symptoms of). Point being that statistically there are useful trends in aggregate data that can be observed, but, paradoxically, those trends don't necessarily translate to good general medical guidance. One counterexample where those trends do translate would be something like that peanut allergy study from 2015 that was linked on HN recently about introducing allergens earlier and frequently to babies, resulting in fewer teen/adult allergies.

manwe150 1y ago
> because the body doesn't have a really good way to rebuild cartilage Okay, but I’m still noting that if you google this exact claim, numerous recent studies found that running is found to build cartilage, contrary to past assumptions

president_zippy 1y ago

That's one of the factors I analyzed in my dinky little post-bacc night school undergrad assignment. The answer I came to is "insufficient data" because none of the longitudinal studies bother with people over 65, which is the interesting part. My high school XC coach, for example retired 2 years after I graduated in his 60s (before quitting the team because he loved running too much to be a 250lb offensive lineman) and is still running 24 hour runs and multi-day 500k races well into his late 70s without any semblance of knee problem. Although he played D2-level football in the 1960s, I wouldn't consider him a genetic aberration immune to commonplace orthopedic conditions like arthritis, bone bruises, or stress fractures. After a few years of not running, I also let myself go and ended up getting passed in a 5k by an 80 year-old woman about a decade ago. I have seen something with my eyes that flies in the face of the "running is bad for your knees" mind virus, and it would be interesting to discuss if there were any longitudinal studies for people old enough to draw Social Security. I don't even think ultramarathon running is worse for your knees than being >200lbs, but I can't find the data that I think should be required before an orthopedist gives any advice one way or another. I admittedly came into the assignment with an agenda because I thought the "most people should not run because knees" myth was created by people who don't run to deny personal responsibility for their health and discourage other people from believing they can improve their lives if they work for it. Note: offensive linemen were a lot smaller prior to about 1985 than the 310lb behemoths out there today. If you like football, thank Lawrence Taylor for that evolution in the game.