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I have a rule that I don't put in any smart devices that aren't at least as smart as a dumb device. They must do everything a dumb device can do when there is n

I have a rule that I don't put in any smart devices that aren't at least as smart as a dumb device. They must do everything a dumb device can do when there is no internet. I've had good luck with the TP-Link/Kasa/Tapo wall switches and bulbs.

coldpie 1y ago
I just use my hands to turn light switches on and off. Worked for 200 years so far and I see no sign of that ever changing.
- bombcar 1y ago
  You’ve been turning lights on for 200 years?!
  - pseudosavant 1y ago
    And I eat shits bigger than you for breakfast.
- zimpenfish 1y ago
  > I just use my hands to turn light switches on and off. Difficult if you're not there though? Whereas a smart bulb/switch can turn it on when you're not there (crime deterrence) or when you're almost home (handy in hallway with no light.) (Niche uses, perhaps, but "I just use my hands" is reductive silliness.)
  - cardanome 1y ago
    Both of your use cases do not require any from of smart device and certainly no internet connection. In fact you could even use an simple analog switch if you want the lights to go on at certain times. And for the hallway I would suggest the tried and true motion sensor. Sure for really complex logic and a lot of flexibility you might want an micro controller eventually but those are truly niche uses. "Smart" devices are insanely overengineered for the simple problems they solve and the huge problems they can cause.
    - zimpenfish 1y ago
      > And for the hallway I would suggest the tried and true motion sensor. By the time I'm in the dark hallway, it's a bit late. "But just add a motion sensor outside!" Yeah, except this is a block of flats and you can't add stuff to the communal areas like that. > if you want the lights to go on at certain times I don't. I want the lights to go on -as if we were at home-. Which is "random times depending on which room and what people are doing and if there is cooking going on and ..." Home Assistant learns from smart bulb activations and can simulate our presence effectively.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - quickthrowman 1y ago
    > Difficult if you're not there though? Whereas a smart bulb/switch can turn it on when you're not there (crime deterrence) This 24 hour timer can turn on two devices (lamps) on for whatever time interval you program, it’s $12: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Defiant-15-Amp-24-Hour-Indoor-Plug-In-Heavy-Duty-Mechanical-Timer-with-2-Grounded-Outlets-White-49807DI/203677447 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Defiant-15-Amp-24-Hour-Indoor-Pl... It consists of a mechanical timer, a dial, and a relay. It plugs into a receptacle. It does not require an internet connection. > or when you're almost home (handy in hallway with no light.) This wall switch occupancy sensor that can switch 2A (240 watts at 120V, more than enough for one hallway) is $23, it’s a decora device so figure $2 more for a 1-gang stainless decora wall plate (or less than buck if you go with plastic!): https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Maestro-Motion-Sensor-Switch-2-Amp-Single-Pole-White-MS-OPS2H-WH-MS-OPS2H-WH/203202128 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Maestro-Motion-Sensor-Swi... Wall switch occ sensors get more expensive as the current they can switch gets higher, one that can do 6A is $87: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Maestro-Dual-Tech-Motion-Sensor-Switch-6-Amp-Single-Pole-White-MS-A102-WH-MS-A102-WH/205643008 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Maestro-Dual-Tech-Motion-... However, that much current can power (72) 10W LED recessed cans that each put out about ~1000 lumens. Or enough light for approximately 2400 square feet of interior space. > (Niche uses, perhaps, but "I just use my hands" is reductive silliness.) These are not niche functions, occupancy sensing and time of day scheduling are in basically every commercial lighting control system and fairly common in homes. They’re solved problems with cheap commodity devices available that don't require an internet connection.
    - zimpenfish 1y ago
      [can't see any of the links because homedepot is blocking EU/UK] > It consists of a mechanical timer, a dial, and a relay. Great but it only works on fixed times. Which isn't what we want. > This wall switch occupancy sensor Would only work once we're inside. Which isn't what we want. (And there's no possibility of putting one outside.) > They’re solved problems with cheap commodity devices For certain simplistic scenarios where things are easily installable, etc. Which is great! I'm not saying everyone should use smart things. Just pointing out, repeatedly, that the "cheap commodity devices" do not, and indeed cannot, perform the same functions as smart devices.
- pseudosavant 1y ago
  When my dogs go outside at night, I turn on 4 lights with "Alexa, turn on the dogs lights." I'd have to go to my kitchen and garage to do that otherwise, and I certainly wouldn't have those sets of lights wired up in a circuit otherwise control in that arrangement. The switches I buy, do all of the dumb stuff, plus more - and the "plus more" parts can be quite useful.
  - fc417fc802 1y ago
    Network connected switches can be a reasonable compromise for a retrofit but if you're remodeling it's a much better idea to run data cabling instead of electrical to all the wall switches and install all the relays in a centralized location.

coldpie 1y ago

I just use my hands to turn light switches on and off. Worked for 200 years so far and I see no sign of that ever changing.

bombcar 1y ago
You’ve been turning lights on for 200 years?!
- pseudosavant 1y ago
  And I eat shits bigger than you for breakfast.
zimpenfish 1y ago
> I just use my hands to turn light switches on and off. Difficult if you're not there though? Whereas a smart bulb/switch can turn it on when you're not there (crime deterrence) or when you're almost home (handy in hallway with no light.) (Niche uses, perhaps, but "I just use my hands" is reductive silliness.)
- cardanome 1y ago
  Both of your use cases do not require any from of smart device and certainly no internet connection. In fact you could even use an simple analog switch if you want the lights to go on at certain times. And for the hallway I would suggest the tried and true motion sensor. Sure for really complex logic and a lot of flexibility you might want an micro controller eventually but those are truly niche uses. "Smart" devices are insanely overengineered for the simple problems they solve and the huge problems they can cause.
  - zimpenfish 1y ago
    > And for the hallway I would suggest the tried and true motion sensor. By the time I'm in the dark hallway, it's a bit late. "But just add a motion sensor outside!" Yeah, except this is a block of flats and you can't add stuff to the communal areas like that. > if you want the lights to go on at certain times I don't. I want the lights to go on -as if we were at home-. Which is "random times depending on which room and what people are doing and if there is cooking going on and ..." Home Assistant learns from smart bulb activations and can simulate our presence effectively.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- quickthrowman 1y ago
  > Difficult if you're not there though? Whereas a smart bulb/switch can turn it on when you're not there (crime deterrence) This 24 hour timer can turn on two devices (lamps) on for whatever time interval you program, it’s $12: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Defiant-15-Amp-24-Hour-Indoor-Plug-In-Heavy-Duty-Mechanical-Timer-with-2-Grounded-Outlets-White-49807DI/203677447 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Defiant-15-Amp-24-Hour-Indoor-Pl... It consists of a mechanical timer, a dial, and a relay. It plugs into a receptacle. It does not require an internet connection. > or when you're almost home (handy in hallway with no light.) This wall switch occupancy sensor that can switch 2A (240 watts at 120V, more than enough for one hallway) is $23, it’s a decora device so figure $2 more for a 1-gang stainless decora wall plate (or less than buck if you go with plastic!): https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Maestro-Motion-Sensor-Switch-2-Amp-Single-Pole-White-MS-OPS2H-WH-MS-OPS2H-WH/203202128 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Maestro-Motion-Sensor-Swi... Wall switch occ sensors get more expensive as the current they can switch gets higher, one that can do 6A is $87: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Maestro-Dual-Tech-Motion-Sensor-Switch-6-Amp-Single-Pole-White-MS-A102-WH-MS-A102-WH/205643008 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-Maestro-Dual-Tech-Motion-... However, that much current can power (72) 10W LED recessed cans that each put out about ~1000 lumens. Or enough light for approximately 2400 square feet of interior space. > (Niche uses, perhaps, but "I just use my hands" is reductive silliness.) These are not niche functions, occupancy sensing and time of day scheduling are in basically every commercial lighting control system and fairly common in homes. They’re solved problems with cheap commodity devices available that don't require an internet connection.
  - zimpenfish 1y ago
    [can't see any of the links because homedepot is blocking EU/UK] > It consists of a mechanical timer, a dial, and a relay. Great but it only works on fixed times. Which isn't what we want. > This wall switch occupancy sensor Would only work once we're inside. Which isn't what we want. (And there's no possibility of putting one outside.) > They’re solved problems with cheap commodity devices For certain simplistic scenarios where things are easily installable, etc. Which is great! I'm not saying everyone should use smart things. Just pointing out, repeatedly, that the "cheap commodity devices" do not, and indeed cannot, perform the same functions as smart devices.
pseudosavant 1y ago
When my dogs go outside at night, I turn on 4 lights with "Alexa, turn on the dogs lights." I'd have to go to my kitchen and garage to do that otherwise, and I certainly wouldn't have those sets of lights wired up in a circuit otherwise control in that arrangement. The switches I buy, do all of the dumb stuff, plus more - and the "plus more" parts can be quite useful.
- fc417fc802 1y ago
  Network connected switches can be a reasonable compromise for a retrofit but if you're remodeling it's a much better idea to run data cabling instead of electrical to all the wall switches and install all the relays in a centralized location.