4 ms·

That says more about your lack of writing skills and understanding of grammar than AI.

happytoexplain 1y ago
That's simply not true, and pointlessly derogatory. This article does not appear to be AI-written, but use of the emdash is undeniably correlated with AI writing. Your reasoning would only make sense if the emdash existed on keyboards. It's reasonable for even good writers to not know how or not care to do the extra keystrokes to type an emdash when they're just writing a blog post - that doesn't mean they have bad writing skills or don't understand grammar, as you have implied.
- johnisgood 1y ago
  Pressing "-" and a space gets replaced by an emdash to me in LibreOffice. No extra keystrokes required.
  - benji-york 1y ago
    I don't think the character is that uncommon in the output of slightly-sophisticated writers and is not hard to generate (e.g., on macOS pressing option-shift-minus generates an em-dash).
    - Kerrick 1y ago
      In fact, on macOS and iOS simply typing two dashes (--) gets autocorrected to an em dash. I used it heavily, which was a bit sloppy since it doesn't also insert the customary hair spaces around the em dash. Incidentally, I turned this autocorrection off when people started associating em dashes with AI writing. I now leave them manual double dashes--even less correct than before, but at least people are more likely to read my writing.
  - Izkata 1y ago
    That's an en dash, not an em dash. An em dash is longer and as far as I know Libreoffice doesn't have a built-in way to make one (though you may have added it to the autocorrect settings yourself). en dash: https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2013 https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2013 em dash: https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2014 https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2014 Edit: Ah, Libreoffice does have a built-in autocorrect for em dash, but you have to type this: :---:
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      Thanks! I did confuse the two despite knowing of both. So ":---:" does work for the em dash? I thought something with fewer keystrokes work, too, at least I remember the em dash from less, but perhaps I just typed it so quickly I did not realize it was indeed ":---:".
- Terr_ 1y ago
  > That's simply not true, and pointlessly derogatory. That same critique should first be aimed at the topmost comment, which has the same problem plus the added guilt of originating (A) a false dichotomy and (B) the derogatory tone that naturally colors later replies. > It's reasonable for even good writers to not know how or not care The text is true, but in context there's an implied fallacy: If X is "reasonable", it does not follow that Not-X is unreasonable. More than enough (reasonable) real humans do add em-dashes when they write. When it comes to a long-form blog post—like this one submitted to HN—it's even more likely than usual! > the extra keystrokes Such as alt + numpad 0150 on Windows, which has served me well when on that platform for... gosh, decades now.
- acuozzo 1y ago
  > use of the emdash is undeniably correlated with AI writing Where do you think the training data came from?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
gdulli 1y ago
That's a silly take, just because they existed and were proper grammar before AI slop popularized them doesn't mean they're not statistically likely to indicate slop today, depending on the context.
- psunavy03 1y ago
  What's sillier is people associating em-dashes with AI slop specifically because they are unsophisticated enough never to have learned how to use them as part of their writing, and assuming everyone else must be as poor of a writer as they are. It's the literary equivalent of thinking someone must be a "hacker" because they have a Bash terminal open.
  - gdulli 1y ago
    You're overthinking it. LLMs exploded the prevalence of em-dashes. That doesn't mean you should assume any instance of an em-dash means LLM content, but it's a reasonable heuristic at the moment.
    - psunavy03 1y ago
      > That doesn't mean you should assume any instance of an em-dash means LLM content No, it doesn't. But people are putting that out there, people are getting accused of using AI because they know how to use em dashes properly, and this is dumb.
    - Terr_ 1y ago
      > but it's a reasonable heuristic I dunno, I feel like the base rate fallacy [0] could easily become a factor... Especially if we don't even have an idea what the false-positive or false-negative rates are yet, let alone true prevalence. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy
  - dkersten 1y ago
    It doesn't really matter. Before LLM's, they were relatively rarely seen, after LLM's, they are commonly seen in AI-written text. Its not unreasonable for people to associate them with being AI-written.
IncreasePosts 1y ago
Referring to an orthographic construct as grammar is not a good indication that you understand what grammar is.

That's simply not true, and pointlessly derogatory. This article does not appear to be AI-written, but use of the emdash is undeniably correlated with AI writing. Your reasoning would only make sense if the emdash existed on keyboards. It's reasonable for even good writers to not know how or not care to do the extra keystrokes to type an emdash when they're just writing a blog post - that doesn't mean they have bad writing skills or don't understand grammar, as you have implied.

johnisgood 1y ago
Pressing "-" and a space gets replaced by an emdash to me in LibreOffice. No extra keystrokes required.
- benji-york 1y ago
  I don't think the character is that uncommon in the output of slightly-sophisticated writers and is not hard to generate (e.g., on macOS pressing option-shift-minus generates an em-dash).
  - Kerrick 1y ago
    In fact, on macOS and iOS simply typing two dashes (--) gets autocorrected to an em dash. I used it heavily, which was a bit sloppy since it doesn't also insert the customary hair spaces around the em dash. Incidentally, I turned this autocorrection off when people started associating em dashes with AI writing. I now leave them manual double dashes--even less correct than before, but at least people are more likely to read my writing.
- Izkata 1y ago
  That's an en dash, not an em dash. An em dash is longer and as far as I know Libreoffice doesn't have a built-in way to make one (though you may have added it to the autocorrect settings yourself). en dash: https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2013 https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2013 em dash: https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2014 https://www.compart.com/en/unicode/U+2014 Edit: Ah, Libreoffice does have a built-in autocorrect for em dash, but you have to type this: :---:
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    Thanks! I did confuse the two despite knowing of both. So ":---:" does work for the em dash? I thought something with fewer keystrokes work, too, at least I remember the em dash from less, but perhaps I just typed it so quickly I did not realize it was indeed ":---:".
Terr_ 1y ago
> That's simply not true, and pointlessly derogatory. That same critique should first be aimed at the topmost comment, which has the same problem plus the added guilt of originating (A) a false dichotomy and (B) the derogatory tone that naturally colors later replies. > It's reasonable for even good writers to not know how or not care The text is true, but in context there's an implied fallacy: If X is "reasonable", it does not follow that Not-X is unreasonable. More than enough (reasonable) real humans do add em-dashes when they write. When it comes to a long-form blog post—like this one submitted to HN—it's even more likely than usual! > the extra keystrokes Such as alt + numpad 0150 on Windows, which has served me well when on that platform for... gosh, decades now.
acuozzo 1y ago
> use of the emdash is undeniably correlated with AI writing Where do you think the training data came from?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

gdulli 1y ago

That's a silly take, just because they existed and were proper grammar before AI slop popularized them doesn't mean they're not statistically likely to indicate slop today, depending on the context.

psunavy03 1y ago
What's sillier is people associating em-dashes with AI slop specifically because they are unsophisticated enough never to have learned how to use them as part of their writing, and assuming everyone else must be as poor of a writer as they are. It's the literary equivalent of thinking someone must be a "hacker" because they have a Bash terminal open.
- gdulli 1y ago
  You're overthinking it. LLMs exploded the prevalence of em-dashes. That doesn't mean you should assume any instance of an em-dash means LLM content, but it's a reasonable heuristic at the moment.
  - psunavy03 1y ago
    > That doesn't mean you should assume any instance of an em-dash means LLM content No, it doesn't. But people are putting that out there, people are getting accused of using AI because they know how to use em dashes properly, and this is dumb.
  - Terr_ 1y ago
    > but it's a reasonable heuristic I dunno, I feel like the base rate fallacy [0] could easily become a factor... Especially if we don't even have an idea what the false-positive or false-negative rates are yet, let alone true prevalence. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy
- dkersten 1y ago
  It doesn't really matter. Before LLM's, they were relatively rarely seen, after LLM's, they are commonly seen in AI-written text. Its not unreasonable for people to associate them with being AI-written.

IncreasePosts 1y ago

Referring to an orthographic construct as grammar is not a good indication that you understand what grammar is.