5 ms·

Even a radar reflector would have helped a lot. ADS-B is off-limits for balloons, ultralights, hang-gliders, etc, and it seems like now that radio beacons can b

Even a radar reflector would have helped a lot. ADS-B is off-limits for balloons, ultralights, hang-gliders, etc, and it seems like now that radio beacons can be manufactured very cheap & low power all those non-commercial aerial vehicles should be equipped.

imglorp 1y ago
Off limits? What's the reason? Why not ADS-B everything in the air and let the computers sort it out?
- alistairSH 1y ago
  It's not off-limits. But, it's not required (for most balloons, ULs, etc). And due to cost and/or weight, people don't always use it when it's not mandatory.
  - mbreese 1y ago
    The comments I was reading at ArsTechnica suggested that adding transponders was off-limits to balloons. The argument was that balloon operators wanted to add transponders but that it was resisted by FAA worrying about there being too many non-plane transponders for pilots/ATC to keep track of. I obviously don't know which is right, but it does show that there is definitely confusion out there about the issue.
- Jtsummers 1y ago
  It's not off limits in the regulatory sense. Balloons are generally exempted due to their size and power constraints. Per the submission, the balloon weighs 2.4 lbs at launch. That doesn't give them much room to add a transponder and battery for ADS-B while staying within the target weight limit.
- naberhausj 1y ago
  47 CFR 87.107 requires that radios transmitters in aircraft broadcast an identification number, and the allowed forms of identification aren't permissive enough for non-registered aircraft. ADS-B out is still relatively new (especially in aviation terms) so I expect we'll see this continue to evolve.
toast0 1y ago
For a 2.5 lb ground weight balloon, a radar reflector is likely still too heavy. The lightest weight marine radar reflector [1] I could find is about half a pound. [1] https://www.westmarine.com/plastimo-tubular-radar-reflector-10730398.html https://www.westmarine.com/plastimo-tubular-radar-reflector-...
- wat10000 1y ago
  Marine applications care a lot about durability and pretty much zero about weight, so I wouldn’t expect that to be representative of how light they can be. You could make a radar reflector from a bit of cardboard and aluminum foil.
- kawfey 1y ago
  you can make one out of cardboard and aluminum foil (better yet, aluminized mylar (space blanket) on foam) on the order of a few oz. https://www.instructables.com/Lightweight-Radar-Reflector/ https://www.instructables.com/Lightweight-Radar-Reflector/ A radar reflector such as that, or this (https://overlookhorizon.com/product/radar-reflector/ https://overlookhorizon.com/product/radar-reflector/, which is ~300g) has roughly the same RCS as a small (piper cherokee) to medium (gulfstream) sized aircraft. That being said, detection isn't everything; primary radar cannot make accurate altitude measurements, only bearing and range. While that's enough to route traffic around, it could be also mistaken for a false return.
  - toast0 1y ago
    Any idea how much that homemade one weighs? 300g for the commercial one is more than half a pound, similar to the one I linked but a different shape.

imglorp 1y ago

Off limits? What's the reason? Why not ADS-B everything in the air and let the computers sort it out?

alistairSH 1y ago
It's not off-limits. But, it's not required (for most balloons, ULs, etc). And due to cost and/or weight, people don't always use it when it's not mandatory.
- mbreese 1y ago
  The comments I was reading at ArsTechnica suggested that adding transponders was off-limits to balloons. The argument was that balloon operators wanted to add transponders but that it was resisted by FAA worrying about there being too many non-plane transponders for pilots/ATC to keep track of. I obviously don't know which is right, but it does show that there is definitely confusion out there about the issue.
Jtsummers 1y ago
It's not off limits in the regulatory sense. Balloons are generally exempted due to their size and power constraints. Per the submission, the balloon weighs 2.4 lbs at launch. That doesn't give them much room to add a transponder and battery for ADS-B while staying within the target weight limit.
naberhausj 1y ago
47 CFR 87.107 requires that radios transmitters in aircraft broadcast an identification number, and the allowed forms of identification aren't permissive enough for non-registered aircraft. ADS-B out is still relatively new (especially in aviation terms) so I expect we'll see this continue to evolve.

toast0 1y ago

For a 2.5 lb ground weight balloon, a radar reflector is likely still too heavy. The lightest weight marine radar reflector [1] I could find is about half a pound. [1] https://www.westmarine.com/plastimo-tubular-radar-reflector-10730398.html https://www.westmarine.com/plastimo-tubular-radar-reflector-...

wat10000 1y ago
Marine applications care a lot about durability and pretty much zero about weight, so I wouldn’t expect that to be representative of how light they can be. You could make a radar reflector from a bit of cardboard and aluminum foil.
kawfey 1y ago
you can make one out of cardboard and aluminum foil (better yet, aluminized mylar (space blanket) on foam) on the order of a few oz. https://www.instructables.com/Lightweight-Radar-Reflector/ https://www.instructables.com/Lightweight-Radar-Reflector/ A radar reflector such as that, or this (https://overlookhorizon.com/product/radar-reflector/ https://overlookhorizon.com/product/radar-reflector/, which is ~300g) has roughly the same RCS as a small (piper cherokee) to medium (gulfstream) sized aircraft. That being said, detection isn't everything; primary radar cannot make accurate altitude measurements, only bearing and range. While that's enough to route traffic around, it could be also mistaken for a false return.
- toast0 1y ago
  Any idea how much that homemade one weighs? 300g for the commercial one is more than half a pound, similar to the one I linked but a different shape.