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Legally, he was very much not a citizen at birth. You are simply incorrect. In the year in which he was born, children of citizen parents born overseas were not

Legally, he was very much not a citizen at birth. You are simply incorrect. In the year in which he was born, children of citizen parents born overseas were not citizens at birth... that only changed 3 years later when Congress passed a law making it so. At that point he became a citizen, and not before.

mrgriscom 1y ago
None of the founding fathers were US citizens at birth because the US didn't exist yet.
- wbl 1y ago
  There is a separate proviso for that!
- FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
  There wasn't a concept of citizenship in the original Constitution until the Naturalization Act of 1790
wbl 1y ago
It seems lawyers are very divided on this. And he was never naturalized so I think there's a strong case for him being natural born.
FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
The Cable Act of 1934 allowed his mother to transmit citizenship by blood
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
  "Allowed" is the operative word. It didn't define it. There was still a process to follow.
  - wbl 1y ago
    The expatriation act of 1907 specifically called those children citizens and I don't think the Cable act is relevant here.
    - FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
      The Expat law of 1907 dealt with naturalization of children born abroad to citizens and that female US citizens would LOSE their citizenship if they married foreign nationals.
  - FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
    You had to file the paperwork at the local consulate. If you didn't the child would have citizenship and it was a mess. Lots of American servicemen, their war brides, and children dealt with this after WWII.
542354234235 1y ago
>In the year in which he was born, children of citizen parents born overseas were not citizens at birth This is completely incorrect and is not what the issue was with his citizenship. John McCain was born in 1936 in the Panama Canal Zone, the area around the Panama Canal that was controlled by the US. The Naturalization Act of 1855 granted birthright citizenship to foreign born children of a US citizen father [1], and was reaffirmed in 1878 [2]. The Equal Nationality Act of 1934 added that a US citizen mother could also confer citizenship to children born abroad [3]. Most interpretations considered The Canal Zone to be foreign territory for citizenship purposes. The issue was in the extremely specific wording of the Acts, which was that children of US parents born “out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States” were granted citizenship. The Canal Zone was outside the limits of the US, but was technically under the jurisdiction of the US. So, depending on how you interpret the Act, children born in The Canal Zone are in a weird no man’s land, where they don’t get citizenship as a result of being born in the US, but also technically aren’t on totally foreign territory, which would give them their parent’s citizenship. In 1937 (a year after McCain’s birth, not three years), Congress passed 50 Stat. 558, explicitly making children born in The Canal Zone to a US citizen parent US citizens [4]. There was no citizenship law 3 years after McCain’s birth, but the Nationality Act of 1940 was four years after, however, its significant change was allowing children born out of wedlock to a US citizen mother to be given citizenship [5]. [1] “persons heretofore born, or hereafter to be born, out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, whose fathers were or shall be at the time of their birth citizens of the United States, shall be deemed and considered and are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States: Provided, however, that the rights of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers never resided in the United States.” extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-10/pdf/STATUTE-10-Pg604-3.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-10/pdf/STATUTE-1... [2] “All children heretofore or hereafter born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, whose fathers were or may be at the time of their birth citizens thereof, are declared to be citizens of the United States; but the rights of citizenship shall not descend to children whose fathers never resided in the United States.” Original Statutes of 1878 [3] “Any child hereafter born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such a child is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States; but the rights of citizenship shall not descend unless the citizen father or citizen mother, as the case may be, has resided in the United States previous to the birth of such child.” 8 FAM 301.5 SECTION 1993, revised statutes of 1878 extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-48/pdf/STATUTE-48-Pg797.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-48/pdf/STATUTE-4... [4] “any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this Act, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.” extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-50/pdf/STATUTE-50-Pg558-2.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-50/pdf/STATUTE-5... [5] “The provisions of section 201, subsections (c), (d), (e), and (g), and section 204, subsections (a) and (b), hereof apply, as of the date of birth, to a child born out of wedlock, provided the paternity is established during minority, by legitimation, or adjudication of a competent court.” 8 U.S.C. 605; 54 Stat. 1139 https://fam.state.gov/fam/08fam/08fam030106.html https://fam.state.gov/fam/08fam/08fam030106.html

mrgriscom 1y ago

None of the founding fathers were US citizens at birth because the US didn't exist yet.

wbl 1y ago
There is a separate proviso for that!
FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
There wasn't a concept of citizenship in the original Constitution until the Naturalization Act of 1790

wbl 1y ago

It seems lawyers are very divided on this. And he was never naturalized so I think there's a strong case for him being natural born.

FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago

The Cable Act of 1934 allowed his mother to transmit citizenship by blood

NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
"Allowed" is the operative word. It didn't define it. There was still a process to follow.
- wbl 1y ago
  The expatriation act of 1907 specifically called those children citizens and I don't think the Cable act is relevant here.
  - FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
    The Expat law of 1907 dealt with naturalization of children born abroad to citizens and that female US citizens would LOSE their citizenship if they married foreign nationals.
- FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
  You had to file the paperwork at the local consulate. If you didn't the child would have citizenship and it was a mess. Lots of American servicemen, their war brides, and children dealt with this after WWII.

542354234235 1y ago

>In the year in which he was born, children of citizen parents born overseas were not citizens at birth This is completely incorrect and is not what the issue was with his citizenship. John McCain was born in 1936 in the Panama Canal Zone, the area around the Panama Canal that was controlled by the US. The Naturalization Act of 1855 granted birthright citizenship to foreign born children of a US citizen father [1], and was reaffirmed in 1878 [2]. The Equal Nationality Act of 1934 added that a US citizen mother could also confer citizenship to children born abroad [3]. Most interpretations considered The Canal Zone to be foreign territory for citizenship purposes. The issue was in the extremely specific wording of the Acts, which was that children of US parents born “out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States” were granted citizenship. The Canal Zone was outside the limits of the US, but was technically under the jurisdiction of the US. So, depending on how you interpret the Act, children born in The Canal Zone are in a weird no man’s land, where they don’t get citizenship as a result of being born in the US, but also technically aren’t on totally foreign territory, which would give them their parent’s citizenship. In 1937 (a year after McCain’s birth, not three years), Congress passed 50 Stat. 558, explicitly making children born in The Canal Zone to a US citizen parent US citizens [4]. There was no citizenship law 3 years after McCain’s birth, but the Nationality Act of 1940 was four years after, however, its significant change was allowing children born out of wedlock to a US citizen mother to be given citizenship [5]. [1] “persons heretofore born, or hereafter to be born, out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, whose fathers were or shall be at the time of their birth citizens of the United States, shall be deemed and considered and are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States: Provided, however, that the rights of citizenship shall not descend to persons whose fathers never resided in the United States.” extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-10/pdf/STATUTE-10-Pg604-3.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-10/pdf/STATUTE-1... [2] “All children heretofore or hereafter born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, whose fathers were or may be at the time of their birth citizens thereof, are declared to be citizens of the United States; but the rights of citizenship shall not descend to children whose fathers never resided in the United States.” Original Statutes of 1878 [3] “Any child hereafter born out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such a child is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States; but the rights of citizenship shall not descend unless the citizen father or citizen mother, as the case may be, has resided in the United States previous to the birth of such child.” 8 FAM 301.5 SECTION 1993, revised statutes of 1878 extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-48/pdf/STATUTE-48-Pg797.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-48/pdf/STATUTE-4... [4] “any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this Act, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States.” extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-50/pdf/STATUTE-50-Pg558-2.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-50/pdf/STATUTE-5... [5] “The provisions of section 201, subsections (c), (d), (e), and (g), and section 204, subsections (a) and (b), hereof apply, as of the date of birth, to a child born out of wedlock, provided the paternity is established during minority, by legitimation, or adjudication of a competent court.” 8 U.S.C. 605; 54 Stat. 1139 https://fam.state.gov/fam/08fam/08fam030106.html https://fam.state.gov/fam/08fam/08fam030106.html