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My dad was born in the Philippines in 1939. He came over to the U.S. on a Taiwanese passport in 1959, part of a group of students that MIT imported from the Ph

My dad was born in the Philippines in 1939. He came over to the U.S. on a Taiwanese passport in 1959, part of a group of students that MIT imported from the Philippines based on letters of recommendation from their Atomic Energy Commission, and then bounced around on various visas for a decade. Finally got citizenship upon marrying my mom in 1971. When McCain was running for president, there was a big court case about whether being born in the Canal Zone (a U.S. territory) qualified as being a "natural born citizen". And I made the connection - "Wait. The Philippines was a U.S. territory in 1939. Shouldn't dad have had birthright citizenship?" Moot point by then, he'd already been a citizen for ~40 years, and died the next year. But it was wild to think that the 10+ years of immigration hassles were basically due to an administrative fuck-up, and that legally, he should have had citizenship all along. The process you link wouldn't work for him, either, because the Philippines is not a U.S. territory now.

NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
>And I made the connection - "Wait. The Philippines was a U.S. territory in 1939. Shouldn't dad have had birthright citizenship?" Unless your dad was part of the elite ruling class which gets to skip and ignore all the rules, the answer is an emphatic no. However, if he was the son of an admiral from a long line of important people who had been in the Senate for years and finally wanted to run for president, well, then Congress might just decide that he's good enough and give their stamp of approval to all of it. Was your dad the son of an admiral who had been in the Senate for years and finally wanted to run for president? Besides, the thing with McCain wasn't about whether he was a citizen or not... this was 100% the case. The trouble was that McCain didn't become a citizen until 3 years old. And "natural born citizen" can't happen for a kid who's already 3, nor can Congress pass laws that are ex post facto, meaning they couldn't retroactively declare him natural born. He was absolutely disqualified from running, and if he had had an ounce of decency he would have accepted that and quit pressing his claims.
- wbl 1y ago
  McCain was the child of two citizen parents and thus a citizen at birth.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
    Legally, he was very much not a citizen at birth. You are simply incorrect. In the year in which he was born, children of citizen parents born overseas were not citizens at birth... that only changed 3 years later when Congress passed a law making it so. At that point he became a citizen, and not before.
    - mrgriscom 1y ago
      None of the founding fathers were US citizens at birth because the US didn't exist yet.
      - wbl 1y ago
        There is a separate proviso for that!
      - FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
        There wasn't a concept of citizenship in the original Constitution until the Naturalization Act of 1790
    - wbl 1y ago
      It seems lawyers are very divided on this. And he was never naturalized so I think there's a strong case for him being natural born.
    - FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
      The Cable Act of 1934 allowed his mother to transmit citizenship by blood
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
        "Allowed" is the operative word. It didn't define it. There was still a process to follow.
blululu 1y ago
This is getting off topic but I do not believe that the Commonwealth of the Philippines was legally/formally a US territory in 1939. It was a protectorate whose foreign affairs were administered by the United States, but it had its own government/constitution that was formally independent and administered by Filipinos. It was more like Cuba than Puerto Rico in the context of the Spanish American war.
- mothballed 1y ago
  Being a territory doesn't mean you become a citizen in any case. American Samoans are not citizens, nor are they entitled to bypass the naturalization process if they wish to become one.
  - sgustard 1y ago
    On the other hand, people born in Guam, Puerto Rico, NMI or AVI are US citizens. https://ballotpedia.org/Citizenship_status_in_territories_of_the_United_States https://ballotpedia.org/Citizenship_status_in_territories_of...
  - stackskipton 1y ago
    They don’t bypass naturalization process but US Nationals can apply for US citizenship by moving to United States, which they have right to with no limits, and apply for naturalization within 3 months of being here. They take the tests and boom done, US citizens.
- bluGill 1y ago
  When the US took the Philippines the plans started soon after to make them an independent country.
khuey 1y ago
> The Philippines was a U.S. territory in 1939. Shouldn't dad have had birthright citizenship? No. Filipinos as a group were never US citizens. They were non-citizen US nationals during the American colonial period. When the Philippines became independent in 1946 the status of Filipinos as non-citizen nationals was terminated and they became citizens of the Philippines only. https://fam.state.gov/fam/08fam/08fam030806.html https://fam.state.gov/fam/08fam/08fam030806.html tl;dr your dad really did have to go through all that trouble.
cafard 1y ago
McCain's parents were both American citizens. I suppose that he would have been a natural born citizen even if born in (say) France. Supposedly Henry Luce was worried that he might not be a natural born citizen, since he was born in China to American missionaries. Apparently he counted as a natural born citizen, though I don't think anyone outside his household ever imagined him as president.

NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago

>And I made the connection - "Wait. The Philippines was a U.S. territory in 1939. Shouldn't dad have had birthright citizenship?" Unless your dad was part of the elite ruling class which gets to skip and ignore all the rules, the answer is an emphatic no. However, if he was the son of an admiral from a long line of important people who had been in the Senate for years and finally wanted to run for president, well, then Congress might just decide that he's good enough and give their stamp of approval to all of it. Was your dad the son of an admiral who had been in the Senate for years and finally wanted to run for president? Besides, the thing with McCain wasn't about whether he was a citizen or not... this was 100% the case. The trouble was that McCain didn't become a citizen until 3 years old. And "natural born citizen" can't happen for a kid who's already 3, nor can Congress pass laws that are ex post facto, meaning they couldn't retroactively declare him natural born. He was absolutely disqualified from running, and if he had had an ounce of decency he would have accepted that and quit pressing his claims.

wbl 1y ago
McCain was the child of two citizen parents and thus a citizen at birth.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
  Legally, he was very much not a citizen at birth. You are simply incorrect. In the year in which he was born, children of citizen parents born overseas were not citizens at birth... that only changed 3 years later when Congress passed a law making it so. At that point he became a citizen, and not before.
  - mrgriscom 1y ago
    None of the founding fathers were US citizens at birth because the US didn't exist yet.
    - wbl 1y ago
      There is a separate proviso for that!
    - FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
      There wasn't a concept of citizenship in the original Constitution until the Naturalization Act of 1790
  - wbl 1y ago
    It seems lawyers are very divided on this. And he was never naturalized so I think there's a strong case for him being natural born.
  - FuriouslyAdrift 1y ago
    The Cable Act of 1934 allowed his mother to transmit citizenship by blood
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
      "Allowed" is the operative word. It didn't define it. There was still a process to follow.

blululu 1y ago

This is getting off topic but I do not believe that the Commonwealth of the Philippines was legally/formally a US territory in 1939. It was a protectorate whose foreign affairs were administered by the United States, but it had its own government/constitution that was formally independent and administered by Filipinos. It was more like Cuba than Puerto Rico in the context of the Spanish American war.

mothballed 1y ago
Being a territory doesn't mean you become a citizen in any case. American Samoans are not citizens, nor are they entitled to bypass the naturalization process if they wish to become one.
- sgustard 1y ago
  On the other hand, people born in Guam, Puerto Rico, NMI or AVI are US citizens. https://ballotpedia.org/Citizenship_status_in_territories_of_the_United_States https://ballotpedia.org/Citizenship_status_in_territories_of...
- stackskipton 1y ago
  They don’t bypass naturalization process but US Nationals can apply for US citizenship by moving to United States, which they have right to with no limits, and apply for naturalization within 3 months of being here. They take the tests and boom done, US citizens.
bluGill 1y ago
When the US took the Philippines the plans started soon after to make them an independent country.

khuey 1y ago

> The Philippines was a U.S. territory in 1939. Shouldn't dad have had birthright citizenship? No. Filipinos as a group were never US citizens. They were non-citizen US nationals during the American colonial period. When the Philippines became independent in 1946 the status of Filipinos as non-citizen nationals was terminated and they became citizens of the Philippines only. https://fam.state.gov/fam/08fam/08fam030806.html https://fam.state.gov/fam/08fam/08fam030806.html tl;dr your dad really did have to go through all that trouble.

cafard 1y ago

McCain's parents were both American citizens. I suppose that he would have been a natural born citizen even if born in (say) France. Supposedly Henry Luce was worried that he might not be a natural born citizen, since he was born in China to American missionaries. Apparently he counted as a natural born citizen, though I don't think anyone outside his household ever imagined him as president.