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FRA: “As for HW3 owners who bought FSD, which basically turned out to be an interest free loan to Tesla for years, the automaker needs to offer free FSD transfe

FRA: “As for HW3 owners who bought FSD, which basically turned out to be an interest free loan to Tesla for years, the automaker needs to offer free FSD transfer and a $10,000 discount on a car upgrade. While this might sound like a lot” It would add up to a lot of money for Tesla, but for customers? Some of these people paid $15.000 years ago for something that hasn’t been delivered, and now, they would be able to get $10,000 ‘back’, only if they commit to spending way more again, in the hope to eventually get what they bought years ago, or, more likely, in the hope of eventually being able to subscribe to get the features they already paid for years ago.

CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
Yeah, sounds completely backwards, how could anyone accept that? "Yeah, sure, you lied to me about it before, but for my next purchase I'll get it slightly cheaper, sounds great"
- cjrp 1y ago
  I think it would work for the fully-indoctrinated customers, but what % of their total base is that? 5%?
  - boringg 1y ago
    I think it is much higher for tesla.
    - LightBug1 1y ago
      At this stage, I imagine them mostly wearing red gag balls ... Why else would you put up with this nonsense? If nothing else, Musk is a Svengali extraordinaire ...
    - cjrp 1y ago
      Hmm I'm not so sure, admittedly based on anecdata. In the UK I know 10+ people who drive Teslas, and none of them are fanboys in any way. It was just the cheapest EV with decent range when they bought it.
      - boringg 1y ago
        I'd say the UK isn't representative of the Tesla market is my guess. Ive talked to a bunch of friends who own them and are the antethesis of red pilled. They lament that the competition is still not there at all and that their Teslas are a much better experience then the rest of the market. Take it for what its worth - anecdotal. Would they buy them again? Probably not but thats because of politics.
        chronci739 1y ago
        > Would they buy them again? Probably not but thats because of politics. That’s the article’s point. Politics, FSD overpromises, Elon, whatever the reason. Tesla deliveries are down and people aren’t coming back.
        ToucanLoucan 1y ago
        Also the QA issues. I can't fathom wanting a Tesla unless the politics are not merely a turn-off for you, but you want to support them directly.
        boringg 1y ago
        On the politics things -- thats only one side of the population. The other side would be more open to purchasing it. Almost nets out except that whole ability to pay piece.
        LaSombra 1y ago
        What does it mean "...the competition is still not there at all..."? What are these features that tie people to Teslas that the competition is unable to deliver on?
        lotsofpulp 1y ago
        In the US: 1) sufficiently long track record of reliability (I might consider Ford and Rivian now) 2) free remote start and unlock 3) camera recordings - how is this not standard in all cars by now? 4) not having to buy via dealership (this is worth a lot to me). Bought a Tesla on my couch in 15 minutes and picking it up took 15 minutes. Dealerships take hours and hours, and try to upsell you. 5) $35k to $40k price point - if BYD were to come to America, I would drop Tesla in a heartbeat
    - shagmin 1y ago
      Probably a significant difference for Cybertrucks compared to cars.
  - CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
    Since 2024 or so I think every single new customer must be one of those, as no one else seems to want to buy a Tesla.
orochimaaru 1y ago
Unless it’s in the purchase agreement, the wording on “fsd” may skirt the ethically questionable but legally acceptable line. If the “fsd” wording is present in the purchase agreement, then Tesla owners have a class action lawsuit.
- estearum 1y ago
  Fine print in contracts can't override and totally negate specific offers made in marketing or the sales process. If they said "$x gets you y", ran ads saying "$x gets you y", held press conferences saying "$x gets you y", then gave you an invoice showing you pay "$x for y", a backing contract saying "$x does not get you y" will not stand up in court. So in addition to not being legally okay, it's obviously not "ethically questionable." Taking people's money and not delivering value you promised to them in exchange is bad.
  - altcognito 1y ago
    Since Tesla thinks they are clever by not running "ads", but instead relies on their own "viral marketing", they may find it rather upsetting when they go through discovery and there are heaps of internal memos talking about how it is important to market the idea that they are selling FSD forward, very directly misleading customers.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      Just Elon's public statements should be upsetting.
  - roman_soldier 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      Per the article: > Tesla only admitted in January 2025 that HW3 won’t be able to support unsupervised self-driving. Musk claimed that Tesla would retrofit the computers, but there has been no word about it for 10 months. Software isn’t the problem. It’s the hardware, and they promised upgrades.
mrtksn 1y ago
It’s a cult, in cults people don’t demand refunds from the messiah. IRL they ask what else I can contribute to the church to fix that because it mist be their fault that the prophesies didn’t come true. In the end it’s not a problem if parties choose not to make a problem if it. In recent years the leader of a cult in Turkey known for being filthy rich died and when cult split the new factions summoned the believers to re-do their inauguration ritual, which involves money collecting, since the old one expired within the death of the leader. And they went and did that, because although its not the members that are rich they still benefit from being in the community and the business connections. Tesla has a similar thing, they are on a mission and many make money from being part of the community as they collect referrals, make content and sell accessories. Even if not doing any of that they ysually have Tesla shares and even if that’s not the case they want to keep the value of their vehicle high. Also in comes with the emotional baggage of having told everyone how their tesla drives autonomously etc.
- IAmBroom 1y ago
  Elon has eroded, even exploded, a lot of that cult. I've seen multiple Teslas in the wild with apologetic "I bought this before I knew he was crazy" bumperstickers.
  - stronglikedan 1y ago
    > "I bought this before I knew he was crazy" bumperstickers how ironic
- gipp 1y ago
  That probably describes some corners of Tesla's market, but 99% of people buying Teslas and FSD are doing it because it is (was?) a cool car with a potentially cool feature. You're letting the wildly unrepresentative sample of "loud people on the Internet" distort your perception of the world at large.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
drcongo 1y ago
$15k?! I've got a bridge they could buy for just $10k.
NickC25 1y ago
>It would add up to a lot of money for Tesla, but for customers? Some of these people paid $15.000 years ago for something that hasn’t been delivered, and now, they would be able to get $10,000 ‘back’, only if they commit to spending way more again, in the hope to eventually get what they bought years ago, or, more likely, in the hope of eventually being able to subscribe to get the features they already paid for years ago. Sounds like fraud. Why is Musk allowed to be worth half a trillion dollars again? The guy can't help himself but lie and make deliberately misleading half-truth (at best) statements in investor meetings and presentations. Textbook fraud. An ethical steward of capital he is not. We've gone through 4+ US presidential administrations with him as the CEO, and not once has he been effectively taken to task let alone held accountable for his bullshit.
- code_for_monkey 1y ago
  America is run by sham companies with con man ceos. Look at the president! He is one. The federal government does the kind of crypto pump and dumps you'd expect to see being run on snapchat. Of course no one is holding Musk's feet to the fire.
  - lern_too_spel 1y ago
    It's not a pump and dump. It's a one-time sell-off of Trump Coins sold by the various Trump-affiliates organizations to companies in China that wanted to be excluded from tariffs and regulations and individuals who wanted to get Trump's ear at a dinner. It's a bribe. The secondary market value of the coins is exactly 0 because that money isn't going to Trump.
- danans 1y ago
  > Why is Musk allowed to be worth half a trillion dollars again? The guy can't help himself but lie and make deliberately misleading half-truth (at best) statements in investor meetings and presentations. Perhaps you just answered your own question. But are you sure he's the only big tech CEO who does it, or does he just do it the best?
  - 1y ago
slowmovintarget 1y ago
The Star Citizen model.
smusamashah 1y ago
Last line immediately reminded of Star Citizen which was first announced in 2012 and people are still paying for the promises/hypes the company keeps making.
- ethbr1 1y ago
  They're still selling $2000s worth of bits that, they mostly promise, might someday exist and be useful. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=to1kDbR4L4I https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=to1kDbR4L4I PS: Bringing Star Citizen into a Tesla FSD discussion is too apt.

CaptainOfCoit 1y ago

Yeah, sounds completely backwards, how could anyone accept that? "Yeah, sure, you lied to me about it before, but for my next purchase I'll get it slightly cheaper, sounds great"

cjrp 1y ago
I think it would work for the fully-indoctrinated customers, but what % of their total base is that? 5%?
- boringg 1y ago
  I think it is much higher for tesla.
  - LightBug1 1y ago
    At this stage, I imagine them mostly wearing red gag balls ... Why else would you put up with this nonsense? If nothing else, Musk is a Svengali extraordinaire ...
  - cjrp 1y ago
    Hmm I'm not so sure, admittedly based on anecdata. In the UK I know 10+ people who drive Teslas, and none of them are fanboys in any way. It was just the cheapest EV with decent range when they bought it.
    - boringg 1y ago
      I'd say the UK isn't representative of the Tesla market is my guess. Ive talked to a bunch of friends who own them and are the antethesis of red pilled. They lament that the competition is still not there at all and that their Teslas are a much better experience then the rest of the market. Take it for what its worth - anecdotal. Would they buy them again? Probably not but thats because of politics.
      - chronci739 1y ago
        > Would they buy them again? Probably not but thats because of politics. That’s the article’s point. Politics, FSD overpromises, Elon, whatever the reason. Tesla deliveries are down and people aren’t coming back.
        ToucanLoucan 1y ago
        Also the QA issues. I can't fathom wanting a Tesla unless the politics are not merely a turn-off for you, but you want to support them directly.
        boringg 1y ago
        On the politics things -- thats only one side of the population. The other side would be more open to purchasing it. Almost nets out except that whole ability to pay piece.
      - LaSombra 1y ago
        What does it mean "...the competition is still not there at all..."? What are these features that tie people to Teslas that the competition is unable to deliver on?
        lotsofpulp 1y ago
        In the US: 1) sufficiently long track record of reliability (I might consider Ford and Rivian now) 2) free remote start and unlock 3) camera recordings - how is this not standard in all cars by now? 4) not having to buy via dealership (this is worth a lot to me). Bought a Tesla on my couch in 15 minutes and picking it up took 15 minutes. Dealerships take hours and hours, and try to upsell you. 5) $35k to $40k price point - if BYD were to come to America, I would drop Tesla in a heartbeat
  - shagmin 1y ago
    Probably a significant difference for Cybertrucks compared to cars.
- CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
  Since 2024 or so I think every single new customer must be one of those, as no one else seems to want to buy a Tesla.

orochimaaru 1y ago

Unless it’s in the purchase agreement, the wording on “fsd” may skirt the ethically questionable but legally acceptable line. If the “fsd” wording is present in the purchase agreement, then Tesla owners have a class action lawsuit.

estearum 1y ago
Fine print in contracts can't override and totally negate specific offers made in marketing or the sales process. If they said "$x gets you y", ran ads saying "$x gets you y", held press conferences saying "$x gets you y", then gave you an invoice showing you pay "$x for y", a backing contract saying "$x does not get you y" will not stand up in court. So in addition to not being legally okay, it's obviously not "ethically questionable." Taking people's money and not delivering value you promised to them in exchange is bad.
- altcognito 1y ago
  Since Tesla thinks they are clever by not running "ads", but instead relies on their own "viral marketing", they may find it rather upsetting when they go through discovery and there are heaps of internal memos talking about how it is important to market the idea that they are selling FSD forward, very directly misleading customers.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    Just Elon's public statements should be upsetting.
- roman_soldier 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    Per the article: > Tesla only admitted in January 2025 that HW3 won’t be able to support unsupervised self-driving. Musk claimed that Tesla would retrofit the computers, but there has been no word about it for 10 months. Software isn’t the problem. It’s the hardware, and they promised upgrades.

mrtksn 1y ago

It’s a cult, in cults people don’t demand refunds from the messiah. IRL they ask what else I can contribute to the church to fix that because it mist be their fault that the prophesies didn’t come true. In the end it’s not a problem if parties choose not to make a problem if it. In recent years the leader of a cult in Turkey known for being filthy rich died and when cult split the new factions summoned the believers to re-do their inauguration ritual, which involves money collecting, since the old one expired within the death of the leader. And they went and did that, because although its not the members that are rich they still benefit from being in the community and the business connections. Tesla has a similar thing, they are on a mission and many make money from being part of the community as they collect referrals, make content and sell accessories. Even if not doing any of that they ysually have Tesla shares and even if that’s not the case they want to keep the value of their vehicle high. Also in comes with the emotional baggage of having told everyone how their tesla drives autonomously etc.

IAmBroom 1y ago
Elon has eroded, even exploded, a lot of that cult. I've seen multiple Teslas in the wild with apologetic "I bought this before I knew he was crazy" bumperstickers.
- stronglikedan 1y ago
  > "I bought this before I knew he was crazy" bumperstickers how ironic
gipp 1y ago
That probably describes some corners of Tesla's market, but 99% of people buying Teslas and FSD are doing it because it is (was?) a cool car with a potentially cool feature. You're letting the wildly unrepresentative sample of "loud people on the Internet" distort your perception of the world at large.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

drcongo 1y ago

$15k?! I've got a bridge they could buy for just $10k.

NickC25 1y ago

>It would add up to a lot of money for Tesla, but for customers? Some of these people paid $15.000 years ago for something that hasn’t been delivered, and now, they would be able to get $10,000 ‘back’, only if they commit to spending way more again, in the hope to eventually get what they bought years ago, or, more likely, in the hope of eventually being able to subscribe to get the features they already paid for years ago. Sounds like fraud. Why is Musk allowed to be worth half a trillion dollars again? The guy can't help himself but lie and make deliberately misleading half-truth (at best) statements in investor meetings and presentations. Textbook fraud. An ethical steward of capital he is not. We've gone through 4+ US presidential administrations with him as the CEO, and not once has he been effectively taken to task let alone held accountable for his bullshit.

code_for_monkey 1y ago
America is run by sham companies with con man ceos. Look at the president! He is one. The federal government does the kind of crypto pump and dumps you'd expect to see being run on snapchat. Of course no one is holding Musk's feet to the fire.
- lern_too_spel 1y ago
  It's not a pump and dump. It's a one-time sell-off of Trump Coins sold by the various Trump-affiliates organizations to companies in China that wanted to be excluded from tariffs and regulations and individuals who wanted to get Trump's ear at a dinner. It's a bribe. The secondary market value of the coins is exactly 0 because that money isn't going to Trump.
danans 1y ago
> Why is Musk allowed to be worth half a trillion dollars again? The guy can't help himself but lie and make deliberately misleading half-truth (at best) statements in investor meetings and presentations. Perhaps you just answered your own question. But are you sure he's the only big tech CEO who does it, or does he just do it the best?
- 1y ago

slowmovintarget 1y ago

The Star Citizen model.

smusamashah 1y ago

Last line immediately reminded of Star Citizen which was first announced in 2012 and people are still paying for the promises/hypes the company keeps making.

ethbr1 1y ago
They're still selling $2000s worth of bits that, they mostly promise, might someday exist and be useful. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=to1kDbR4L4I https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=to1kDbR4L4I PS: Bringing Star Citizen into a Tesla FSD discussion is too apt.