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Germany is not the only society which is like this. But there is one difference I've noticed lately: When you read online commenters from Nordic countries, the

Germany is not the only society which is like this. But there is one difference I've noticed lately: When you read online commenters from Nordic countries, they are usually against this oppressive mindset described in the article, and ashamed for that aspect of their country. Under the guise of online anonymity, the dissenters are greater than the system loyalists. Or maybe they are even system loyalists blowing off steam. However, Germans I see online - even under the guise of anonymity - will strongly defend and support their system. Are the German dissenters all offline, or are they way fewer than in other similar countries?

FinnLobsien 1y ago
My take having grown up in Germany: Germany has risen to one of the world's top economies with products known for precision manufacturing, exacting standards and a general assumption that "We do things the right way". So Germans became convinced they know the exactly correct way to do things because that's how they became the top of the world. So now that things are getting worse (economy, housing etc.), many Germans are convinced they just need a bit more of the exactly correct way to do things. The same perfectionist mindset that lets you manufacture some of the world's best physical products is the mindset that makes it impossible for the government to use the internet.
- carlosjobim 1y ago
  I really have great admirations for the German(ic?) people. They have much the same mindset as neighbours such as the Nordics. Perfectionists, quality standards in all they do, doing things "the right way" as you mentioned. Maybe an "autistic" mindset when it comes to work. The difference from the Nordics is that Germans have had the determination to go all the way with things, which means that for almost any great invention in the world there's always a German behind it. But when it comes to the social cohesion, I always thought that the Germans had to fake it like the Nordics do, or like people in the Soviet Union did. But more and more I start to realize it's not the case. Germans actually support their government and support the European Union (in Nordic countries you can't find 1 in 1000 people who supports the EU), and support the official ideologies in their country. Is this the case, or am I encountering Germans online in isolated spaces?
  - MarcusE1W 1y ago
    Big country and many options and all that, but at least with regards to EU support I would say yes, the majority of Germans supports the EU. I would say some regions more than others. I think it is understood that the EU could be better and is a child of many compromises, but if you want to make it better you have to say what and crucially how. Until then, why not be happy with what you have, for once.
  - FinnLobsien 1y ago
    > The difference from the Nordics is that Germans have had the determination to go all the way with things, which means that for almost any great invention in the world there's always a German behind it. That difference is also one of 80m+ people vs. a few million for the Nordics. > But when it comes to the social cohesion, I always thought that the Germans had to fake it like the Nordics do, or like people in the Soviet Union did. But more and more I start to realize it's not the case. Germans actually support their government and support the European Union (in Nordic countries you can't find 1 in 1000 people who supports the EU), and support the official ideologies in their country. Is this the case, or am I encountering Germans online in isolated spaces? Germans are indeed an incredibly obedient people. Even Vladimir Lenin once said "You couldn't start the revolution in Germany because there's a sign on front of the palace that says you can't step on the lawn." I think Germany has extreme risk aversion as a result of two world wars and being extremely invested in a status quo that put them on top. Now Germany believes they can "just one more law" themselves back to the top. Re: EU—Germany is a massive driver and biggest contributor to the EU. A lot of the EU's bureaucracy is a German-driven mindset which assumes everything will be good if you just pass one more law.
TMWNN 1y ago
>However, Germans I see online - even under the guise of anonymity - will strongly defend and support their system. Are the German dissenters all offline, or are they way fewer than in other similar countries? I've heard it said that the idea that Germans are efficient is a myth. (The new Berlin airport is one example.) Germans are, rather, *rule followers*.

FinnLobsien 1y ago

My take having grown up in Germany: Germany has risen to one of the world's top economies with products known for precision manufacturing, exacting standards and a general assumption that "We do things the right way". So Germans became convinced they know the exactly correct way to do things because that's how they became the top of the world. So now that things are getting worse (economy, housing etc.), many Germans are convinced they just need a bit more of the exactly correct way to do things. The same perfectionist mindset that lets you manufacture some of the world's best physical products is the mindset that makes it impossible for the government to use the internet.

carlosjobim 1y ago
I really have great admirations for the German(ic?) people. They have much the same mindset as neighbours such as the Nordics. Perfectionists, quality standards in all they do, doing things "the right way" as you mentioned. Maybe an "autistic" mindset when it comes to work. The difference from the Nordics is that Germans have had the determination to go all the way with things, which means that for almost any great invention in the world there's always a German behind it. But when it comes to the social cohesion, I always thought that the Germans had to fake it like the Nordics do, or like people in the Soviet Union did. But more and more I start to realize it's not the case. Germans actually support their government and support the European Union (in Nordic countries you can't find 1 in 1000 people who supports the EU), and support the official ideologies in their country. Is this the case, or am I encountering Germans online in isolated spaces?
- MarcusE1W 1y ago
  Big country and many options and all that, but at least with regards to EU support I would say yes, the majority of Germans supports the EU. I would say some regions more than others. I think it is understood that the EU could be better and is a child of many compromises, but if you want to make it better you have to say what and crucially how. Until then, why not be happy with what you have, for once.
- FinnLobsien 1y ago
  > The difference from the Nordics is that Germans have had the determination to go all the way with things, which means that for almost any great invention in the world there's always a German behind it. That difference is also one of 80m+ people vs. a few million for the Nordics. > But when it comes to the social cohesion, I always thought that the Germans had to fake it like the Nordics do, or like people in the Soviet Union did. But more and more I start to realize it's not the case. Germans actually support their government and support the European Union (in Nordic countries you can't find 1 in 1000 people who supports the EU), and support the official ideologies in their country. Is this the case, or am I encountering Germans online in isolated spaces? Germans are indeed an incredibly obedient people. Even Vladimir Lenin once said "You couldn't start the revolution in Germany because there's a sign on front of the palace that says you can't step on the lawn." I think Germany has extreme risk aversion as a result of two world wars and being extremely invested in a status quo that put them on top. Now Germany believes they can "just one more law" themselves back to the top. Re: EU—Germany is a massive driver and biggest contributor to the EU. A lot of the EU's bureaucracy is a German-driven mindset which assumes everything will be good if you just pass one more law.

TMWNN 1y ago

>However, Germans I see online - even under the guise of anonymity - will strongly defend and support their system. Are the German dissenters all offline, or are they way fewer than in other similar countries? I've heard it said that the idea that Germans are efficient is a myth. (The new Berlin airport is one example.) Germans are, rather, *rule followers*.