4 ms·

Pasta/80 is a simple Pascal cross compiler targeting the Z80 microprocessor

121 points by mariuz 1y ago

benterix 1y ago
This made my heart melt: https://github.com/pleumann/pasta80/issues/7#issuecomment-2873679460 https://github.com/pleumann/pasta80/issues/7#issuecomment-28...
- ochrist 1y ago
  For those that don't know it, Anders Hejlsberg is the guy behind Turbo Pascal, Delphi, J++, C# and TypeScript https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg
- jacquesm 1y ago
  That's like knowing that the gods are smiling down on your project.
- BruceEel 1y ago
  Good heavens. Comparable to getting one of those $0x1.00 cheques from Donald Knuth...
pjmlp 1y ago
This is really cool, I only managed to get a Pascal interpreter for a subset of the language as a type-in book, when I was already into PC land and naturally only kept the book as collection item. Thanks for spoiling my upcoming weekend. :)
mati365 1y ago
Writing compilers for old CPUs has some real magic in it. It helps you see how processors really work and brings back the old days when hardware was simple and easy to understand. I miss that time. I once wrote a small C compiler in TypeScript for the Intel 8086 and 8087 ([1]), and I have huge respect for the people who coded for those chips. It’s super hard but also very rewarding. [1] https://github.com/Mati365/ts-c-compiler https://github.com/Mati365/ts-c-compiler
- le-mark 1y ago
  I think writing lexers and parsers is just fun, code generation I have not done; which is next level imo. I guess the next level after that is doing the lexing parsing and code generation on the chip. Then the need for multi pass compilation would become apparent quickly I presume!
- zahlman 1y ago
  > It helps you see how processors really work and brings back the old days when hardware was simple and easy to understand. I miss that time. Just FWIW, you can still find Z80s listed for sale all over the usual e-merchants and people absolutely still design around them. It wasn't discontinued until last June, and there's an updated eZ80 design still made and sold by Zilog.
- PaulHoule 1y ago
  The Z-80 was one of the best compiler targets of that age, but the 8086 was even better. Everyone was amazed at the very fast Turbo Pascal compiler for the Z-80 that got ported to 8086. I had an 80286 computer and Turbo Pascal was my favorite programming language because the compiler was fast, execution was fast, and the language was extended enough that you could do most systems and applications programming in Pascal -- you could easily link assembly language procedures such as replacements for the stdlib zero and copy routines that took advantage of new instructions and wider paths to 2x those functions.
- kjs3 1y ago
  8086 was a cakewalk compared to some of the weirder old chips. 6502 is a notoriously bad compiler target but things like the Signetics 2650 or RCA 1802 had a completely different set of challenges.
garganzol 1y ago
Pascal was the first structured high-level language I learned when I was a kid. After I learned C and started using it, I noted that I experience five times more memory-related issues in C programs than in an equivalent Pascal code I was writing before. During that era, Pascal had a remarkable advantage few other languages could match: it used a single-pass compiler that generated machine code as it parsed the source code. No intermediate representations or syntax trees - just a direct translation from source to machine code, all thanks to the well thought-out language syntax invented by Nicolas Wirth. That feature made Pascal compilers incredibly fast. In turn, it allowed to tighten up a typical development cycle of the day: (edit -> compile -> run) x N times. Given typical CPU speeds of the time, it made a night and day difference. For example, given the same piece of software under development with a comparable number of lines, Turbo Pascal development cycle was about 5 seconds, while Turbo C gave you 40 seconds of a round-trip time at best. Pascal was the right tool at the right time. Both Apple and Microsoft initially used Pascal to develop their operating systems. When available CPUs started to become faster and faster, that particular Pascal advantage began to fade out and other languages commenced eating away its market share. Somewhere between 1986 and 1992, software houses were switching to C in flocks.
- bluedino 1y ago
  > After I learned C and started using it, I noted that I experience five times more memory-related issues in C programs than in an equivalent Pascal code I was writing before. I wasted so much productive time learning/writing C for the sake of learning/writing C instead of just doing the work in Pascal back then. Later on I had the same problem, I already knew Rails but wanted to do Python/Django just becuase.
- acqq 1y ago
  Another advantage of Pascal is that the programs written in it crashed much less, which also allowed for a much safe development on the machines of that time which didn't have any "memory write" protections. And safety in development actually translated in less crashy product too.
  - garganzol 1y ago
luckys 1y ago
Great name. Names can be so generic but this hits the nail on the head
tanakian 1y ago
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tanakian 1y ago
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KeyBoardG 1y ago
This is great to see. I have played around with Turbo Rascal Syntax Error and will give this a shot. SpeccyNext coming when round 3 ships.

121 points by mariuz 1y ago

This made my heart melt: https://github.com/pleumann/pasta80/issues/7#issuecomment-2873679460 https://github.com/pleumann/pasta80/issues/7#issuecomment-28...

ochrist 1y ago
For those that don't know it, Anders Hejlsberg is the guy behind Turbo Pascal, Delphi, J++, C# and TypeScript https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg
jacquesm 1y ago
That's like knowing that the gods are smiling down on your project.
BruceEel 1y ago
Good heavens. Comparable to getting one of those $0x1.00 cheques from Donald Knuth...

pjmlp 1y ago

This is really cool, I only managed to get a Pascal interpreter for a subset of the language as a type-in book, when I was already into PC land and naturally only kept the book as collection item. Thanks for spoiling my upcoming weekend. :)

mati365 1y ago

Writing compilers for old CPUs has some real magic in it. It helps you see how processors really work and brings back the old days when hardware was simple and easy to understand. I miss that time. I once wrote a small C compiler in TypeScript for the Intel 8086 and 8087 ([1]), and I have huge respect for the people who coded for those chips. It’s super hard but also very rewarding. [1] https://github.com/Mati365/ts-c-compiler https://github.com/Mati365/ts-c-compiler

le-mark 1y ago
I think writing lexers and parsers is just fun, code generation I have not done; which is next level imo. I guess the next level after that is doing the lexing parsing and code generation on the chip. Then the need for multi pass compilation would become apparent quickly I presume!
zahlman 1y ago
> It helps you see how processors really work and brings back the old days when hardware was simple and easy to understand. I miss that time. Just FWIW, you can still find Z80s listed for sale all over the usual e-merchants and people absolutely still design around them. It wasn't discontinued until last June, and there's an updated eZ80 design still made and sold by Zilog.
PaulHoule 1y ago
The Z-80 was one of the best compiler targets of that age, but the 8086 was even better. Everyone was amazed at the very fast Turbo Pascal compiler for the Z-80 that got ported to 8086. I had an 80286 computer and Turbo Pascal was my favorite programming language because the compiler was fast, execution was fast, and the language was extended enough that you could do most systems and applications programming in Pascal -- you could easily link assembly language procedures such as replacements for the stdlib zero and copy routines that took advantage of new instructions and wider paths to 2x those functions.
kjs3 1y ago
8086 was a cakewalk compared to some of the weirder old chips. 6502 is a notoriously bad compiler target but things like the Signetics 2650 or RCA 1802 had a completely different set of challenges.

garganzol 1y ago

Pascal was the first structured high-level language I learned when I was a kid. After I learned C and started using it, I noted that I experience five times more memory-related issues in C programs than in an equivalent Pascal code I was writing before. During that era, Pascal had a remarkable advantage few other languages could match: it used a single-pass compiler that generated machine code as it parsed the source code. No intermediate representations or syntax trees - just a direct translation from source to machine code, all thanks to the well thought-out language syntax invented by Nicolas Wirth. That feature made Pascal compilers incredibly fast. In turn, it allowed to tighten up a typical development cycle of the day: (edit -> compile -> run) x N times. Given typical CPU speeds of the time, it made a night and day difference. For example, given the same piece of software under development with a comparable number of lines, Turbo Pascal development cycle was about 5 seconds, while Turbo C gave you 40 seconds of a round-trip time at best. Pascal was the right tool at the right time. Both Apple and Microsoft initially used Pascal to develop their operating systems. When available CPUs started to become faster and faster, that particular Pascal advantage began to fade out and other languages commenced eating away its market share. Somewhere between 1986 and 1992, software houses were switching to C in flocks.

bluedino 1y ago
> After I learned C and started using it, I noted that I experience five times more memory-related issues in C programs than in an equivalent Pascal code I was writing before. I wasted so much productive time learning/writing C for the sake of learning/writing C instead of just doing the work in Pascal back then. Later on I had the same problem, I already knew Rails but wanted to do Python/Django just becuase.
acqq 1y ago
Another advantage of Pascal is that the programs written in it crashed much less, which also allowed for a much safe development on the machines of that time which didn't have any "memory write" protections. And safety in development actually translated in less crashy product too.
- garganzol 1y ago

luckys 1y ago

Great name. Names can be so generic but this hits the nail on the head

tanakian 1y ago

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tanakian 1y ago

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KeyBoardG 1y ago

This is great to see. I have played around with Turbo Rascal Syntax Error and will give this a shot. SpeccyNext coming when round 3 ships.