4 ms·

> post-truth era. I know it’s completely normalized and the official name, but this has to be the most dangerous euphemism of our time. It’s the era of lies.

sixtyj 1y ago
You are absolutely right. But “era of lies” doesn’t sound nice because nobody wants to be a liar… so “post-truth” sounds better: “I'm telling the truth. Almost. But I'm not lying.”
- consumer451 1y ago
  The inevitable AI investment bubble popping is going to be a big deal, but I believe that the larger bubble of political lies popping is much more interesting to think about. What is that going to look like? How does one hedge against that eventuality?
  - sixtyj 1y ago
    It'll probably be a black swan anyway. So it's best to stay calm, because to hedge against it... Stephen Emmott ends his book Ten Billion with the line "Teach my son how to use a gun."
    - consumer451 1y ago
      Interesting reference. I had not heard of him, or that book from 2013. 10B is now projected to be our peak, and at 7B we have so much spare food that we burn it as automotive fuel. And now... we realize that population "collapse" is much more likely to happen than endless growth. Obviously I have not read the book, but do you think it holds up in 2025?
      - sixtyj 1y ago
        Many books on the subject are very much "doomsayers" or "preppers" style. The Roman Empire has been crumbling for 400 years, so it's likely that we won't experience the collapse of society as described in most history books either - life is too short for that. Unless a black swan comes along… To answer your question, I like to come back to the book because it's written in the style of Dan Brown :) - short, punchy chapters. And it still makes sense (to me).
      - hunterpayne 1y ago
        Worldwide population peaked sometime between 2015 and 2020 at somewhere between 7.2 and 7.4B. So my take on the book is that it isn't very good. Also, biofuels based on most crops other than sugar cane, in addition to not being very helpful in the fight against AGW, triggered large price spikes and political turmoil in a dozen different countries at once. Perhaps you heard of this event, we call it the Arab Spring. We are still dealing with the fallout of it.
  - at-fates-hands 1y ago
    >> I believe that the larger bubble of political lies popping is much more interesting to think about. Does this mean that politics will finally get out of everything and give me back my sports that will be free of the constant political pandering?
    - consumer451 1y ago
      When functional, politics should be boring af, and happen in the background, so yes.
mmooss 1y ago
Post-truth means a couple of things to me: It indicates that it's a follow-on to postmodernism. To a significant degree the post-truth era is built on a reactionary attack on postmodernism - you can see it on HN, where many people reflexively attack like a mob anything they perceive is postmodern. You can see it in so many people who will accept lies and disaster over postmodernism. And post-truth is a postmodern term - ironic, ridiculing, makes you think, has some energy to it. How absurd to be literally //post-truth//. > era of lies That's a post-postmodern term. No irony or wit; a term of despair. :)
- Levitz 1y ago
  >It indicates that it's a follow-on to postmodernism. How? it's just postmodernism itself. There is no truth because everything is relative. There is no singular, objective truth, facts are intrinsically bound to their context, hence post-truth.
  - consumer451 1y ago
    First, I mean no personal insults. Let's discuss ideas. As someone who grew up being de-programmed from Soviet propaganda by my parents every time I came home, starting from pre-school, I cannot even begin to communicate how allergic I am to this discourse. "There is no truth" is some grade-A bullshit to me. What's next? Maybe Stalin wasn't Hitler's military ally to start WWII? Maybe we live in a simulation? What's the point of anything? 1+1=3! I could just be dumb, but my theoretical view from 30,000 feet, or 30,000 years in the future can be read here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45661175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45661175
  - mmooss 1y ago
    > How? it's just postmodernism itself. / There is no truth because everything is relative. There is no singular, objective truth, facts are intrinsically bound to their context, hence post-truth. That's not postmodernism but a caricature of it by its critics. Postmodernism cares deeply about truth. It is highly skeptical of power, bias, perception, etc. and provides tools to mitigate these risks to truth. Post-truth is cares very little about truth and is especially non-skeptical, imho.
convolvatron 1y ago
this is pedantic, but I think its important. We can say that a truth and lie are exclusive. when we lie, we know the truth. we just make up something else because it fits our agenda better. post-truth implies that the distinction doesn't matter anymore. nothing is true, everything is true. no statement can be evaluated outside the intent in which its delivered. that's much more substantial shift than just presenting a set of lies as the truth. a post-truth society is almost compelled to devalue science or any other pursuit of knowledge. by making all the voices selfish and mundane, it explicitly rejects beauty and accomplishment.
- consumer451 1y ago
  Whenever I can, I try to think of modern events from the point of view of archaeologists digging through the layers, at some point in the distant future. Given that perspective, my thought was: "Hey Bob, look at these morons, they called easily proven lies 'post-truth!' Can you believe that? In a civilization based on science, with AI, nuclear, and biological weapons?! No wonder they died out right after this. How did they not see this coming? Anyway, what's for lunch?"
hamdingers 1y ago
While we are in an era of lies, it's only because so much of the public no longer finds truth compelling. Hence, post-truth.

sixtyj 1y ago

You are absolutely right. But “era of lies” doesn’t sound nice because nobody wants to be a liar… so “post-truth” sounds better: “I'm telling the truth. Almost. But I'm not lying.”

consumer451 1y ago
The inevitable AI investment bubble popping is going to be a big deal, but I believe that the larger bubble of political lies popping is much more interesting to think about. What is that going to look like? How does one hedge against that eventuality?
- sixtyj 1y ago
  It'll probably be a black swan anyway. So it's best to stay calm, because to hedge against it... Stephen Emmott ends his book Ten Billion with the line "Teach my son how to use a gun."
  - consumer451 1y ago
    Interesting reference. I had not heard of him, or that book from 2013. 10B is now projected to be our peak, and at 7B we have so much spare food that we burn it as automotive fuel. And now... we realize that population "collapse" is much more likely to happen than endless growth. Obviously I have not read the book, but do you think it holds up in 2025?
    - sixtyj 1y ago
      Many books on the subject are very much "doomsayers" or "preppers" style. The Roman Empire has been crumbling for 400 years, so it's likely that we won't experience the collapse of society as described in most history books either - life is too short for that. Unless a black swan comes along… To answer your question, I like to come back to the book because it's written in the style of Dan Brown :) - short, punchy chapters. And it still makes sense (to me).
    - hunterpayne 1y ago
      Worldwide population peaked sometime between 2015 and 2020 at somewhere between 7.2 and 7.4B. So my take on the book is that it isn't very good. Also, biofuels based on most crops other than sugar cane, in addition to not being very helpful in the fight against AGW, triggered large price spikes and political turmoil in a dozen different countries at once. Perhaps you heard of this event, we call it the Arab Spring. We are still dealing with the fallout of it.
- at-fates-hands 1y ago
  >> I believe that the larger bubble of political lies popping is much more interesting to think about. Does this mean that politics will finally get out of everything and give me back my sports that will be free of the constant political pandering?
  - consumer451 1y ago
    When functional, politics should be boring af, and happen in the background, so yes.

mmooss 1y ago

Post-truth means a couple of things to me: It indicates that it's a follow-on to postmodernism. To a significant degree the post-truth era is built on a reactionary attack on postmodernism - you can see it on HN, where many people reflexively attack like a mob anything they perceive is postmodern. You can see it in so many people who will accept lies and disaster over postmodernism. And post-truth is a postmodern term - ironic, ridiculing, makes you think, has some energy to it. How absurd to be literally //post-truth//. > era of lies That's a post-postmodern term. No irony or wit; a term of despair. :)

Levitz 1y ago
>It indicates that it's a follow-on to postmodernism. How? it's just postmodernism itself. There is no truth because everything is relative. There is no singular, objective truth, facts are intrinsically bound to their context, hence post-truth.
- consumer451 1y ago
  First, I mean no personal insults. Let's discuss ideas. As someone who grew up being de-programmed from Soviet propaganda by my parents every time I came home, starting from pre-school, I cannot even begin to communicate how allergic I am to this discourse. "There is no truth" is some grade-A bullshit to me. What's next? Maybe Stalin wasn't Hitler's military ally to start WWII? Maybe we live in a simulation? What's the point of anything? 1+1=3! I could just be dumb, but my theoretical view from 30,000 feet, or 30,000 years in the future can be read here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45661175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45661175
- mmooss 1y ago
  > How? it's just postmodernism itself. / There is no truth because everything is relative. There is no singular, objective truth, facts are intrinsically bound to their context, hence post-truth. That's not postmodernism but a caricature of it by its critics. Postmodernism cares deeply about truth. It is highly skeptical of power, bias, perception, etc. and provides tools to mitigate these risks to truth. Post-truth is cares very little about truth and is especially non-skeptical, imho.

convolvatron 1y ago

this is pedantic, but I think its important. We can say that a truth and lie are exclusive. when we lie, we know the truth. we just make up something else because it fits our agenda better. post-truth implies that the distinction doesn't matter anymore. nothing is true, everything is true. no statement can be evaluated outside the intent in which its delivered. that's much more substantial shift than just presenting a set of lies as the truth. a post-truth society is almost compelled to devalue science or any other pursuit of knowledge. by making all the voices selfish and mundane, it explicitly rejects beauty and accomplishment.

consumer451 1y ago
Whenever I can, I try to think of modern events from the point of view of archaeologists digging through the layers, at some point in the distant future. Given that perspective, my thought was: "Hey Bob, look at these morons, they called easily proven lies 'post-truth!' Can you believe that? In a civilization based on science, with AI, nuclear, and biological weapons?! No wonder they died out right after this. How did they not see this coming? Anyway, what's for lunch?"

hamdingers 1y ago

While we are in an era of lies, it's only because so much of the public no longer finds truth compelling. Hence, post-truth.