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The PIP culture of AWS sounds horrifying. As a decent engineer, I would not work there unless that is addressed. I heard its as bad as this. Take a team of 5 g
by aussieguy1234 1y ago
The PIP culture of AWS sounds horrifying. As a decent engineer, I would not work there unless that is addressed.
I heard its as bad as this. Take a team of 5 genius engineers, the best 5 in the world.
There is a PIP quota, so one of the genius engineers must be PIP'ed, despite being in the top 5 engineers globally.
- wkat4242 1y agoWhat's PIP?
- frankzinger 1y agoPerformance Improvement Plan, a formal process for employees whose performance is not meeting job expectations.
- rcxdude 1y agoWhich is generally used as a means to collect evidence that they're unable to do the job before firing them (and in many cases the decision to fire them has already been made).
- wkat4242 1y agoThanks! I think we have a different name for it. Here in Europe they need a very serious reason anyway (like gross misconduct) and if they don't have it they can make you redundant but have to pay significant severance. I'm kinda waiting for an opportunity for that at my current employer, due to leadership changes it's no longer a great place to work. When there's layoffs there's usually voluntary options with a decent severance plan. I'm glad we don't have this at-will stuff here. I would never considering moving somewhere that does (I've lived in 4 countries now). Universal healthcare is also a must, and good public transport. So America will never be an option for me in any case.
- jack_tripper 1y ago>Here in Europe they need a very serious reason anyway (like gross misconduct) Definitely not true in all of Europe. There's some countries where severance pay is not mandatory for all workers' groups and reasons aren't needed to fire someone (the green countries)[1] and also some have loopholes where PIP is legal and often used, so in practice YMMV depending on the laws where you live and the unions in your job/industry. >(like gross misconduct) Again, not always true. In many countries gross misconduct can be grounds for on the spot termination. For example in NL there was a truck driver that modified the safety system on his truck so he can unload potentially dangerous cargo from the comfort of his cabin without having to keep the outside lift button pressed. When caught he was fired on the spot with no severance and no unemployment, and even lost the case after he sued for unjust termination. [1] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/At_will_employment_map.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/At_will_...
- losteric 1y agoEvery good Amazon org has sacrificial bad employees. Managers know a team of all-stars creates risky team dynamics under PIP
- rester324 1y agoThis sounds toxic on it's own right. What a horrible managament practice
- Tsarbomb 1y agoYears ago I interviewed for Amazon. I found out that on a desired team size of 8, there were only 3 left, where the other 5 who were no longer there, as I was told, were poor performers. I didn't take the job.
- aussieguy1234 1y agoI guess at AWS, "poor performer" could potentially mean one of the best engineers in the world.
- JCM9 1y ago10 years ago potentially. Today the best engineers won’t take a job there so the bar has fallen quite far down market.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- coredog64 1y agoNot to defend PIP, but it is applied at a scale greater than a team, and that below a certain size an org is immune to stack ranking requirements.