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Then why aren't they leading in the generation of unique IP? Anyways understanding China as if it were one giant entity operating in lockstep is peak western t

Then why aren't they leading in the generation of unique IP? Anyways understanding China as if it were one giant entity operating in lockstep is peak western thinking.

jay_kyburz 1y ago
I don't doubt they have heaps of unique IP but you don't see it because you don't speak Chinese and they don't bother to translate it for our benefit. They also have different values, so sometimes their movies and TV seem a little "off" for us. We don't find the same things funny, or heroic.
- M95D 1y ago
  ^ that, and they probably don't value IP rights as much as the western world. I might be wrong but I have the impression they view it as a hindrance. Any chinese here that can share their view?
  - general1465 1y ago
    > that, and they probably don't value IP rights as much as the western world No, that's actually completely untrue. Chinese (and Japanese too) has no problem to copy your IP, but they will fight tooth and nail to protect theirs. Nintendo is great example of that (look into history how they got big) for China it was recently when EU wants tech transfer in exchange for dropping tariffs on cars, which Chinese are not keen on at all. https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202510/1345710.shtml https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202510/1345710.shtml
  - Sabinus 1y ago
    When you have no IP, you steal IP. When you have IP you make agreements with other countries to mutually respect IP.
- themafia 1y ago
  > and they don't bother to translate it for our benefit. There are organizations aside from the Chinese government that speak Chinese and could translate into other languages. I'm thinking specifically of any news reporting organization. > They also have different values They also span five different time zones. The values are no more consistent in their society then it is in any other.
  - jay_kyburz 1y ago
    The point I was trying to make is the financial incentives are just not there. It costs money to translate (and localize) IPs and unless they are really good, people here are just not going to like them very much. (because cultural differences) Having said that, we do get some of the biggest games, movies and apps.
mamonster 1y ago
>Then why aren't they leading in the generation of unique IP? The simple answer is that they are still in the "copying" stage. China is what, like 30k GDP on a PPP basis? I think they are still in the stage where the marginal returns on simply copying stuff are higher than frontier research for most of the industries they are in. They don't have the problem of something like Switzerland, where we need to figure out what a 110k GDP PPP looks like (the countries above us right now cannot be replicated for obvious reasons). China can mix match its way to 40,50,60,70k PPP for the next 10 years.
__turbobrew__ 1y ago
Intelligence is a necessary but not sufficient condition to generating new technology. I don’t have firsthand experience, but I have heard that China is attempting to restructure their education programs which have been historically 100% aimed at test taking which is not a good way to produce leaders, original thought, and value to society. The elites of China still send their children abroad to study.
- spwa4 1y ago
  That's not the problem you keep hearing about. China is incredibly unequal. The education program is aimed at test taking because the only way to do anything is to first climb the ladder in the communist party. How do you get into the lowest rung of the communist party? How do you start climbing the ladder? Well, a test, the "Gaokao". There's your explanation. You need to know math, and of course exactly how Xi Jingping (and the CCP) is a god and the solution to all the worlds problems (there's 3 volumes about it which you have to know by hard: "习近平谈治国理政") Looks like (three of) this book: https://www.amazon.com/Xi-Jinping-Governance-Simplified-Chinese/dp/7119124102 https://www.amazon.com/Xi-Jinping-Governance-Simplified-Chin... If anything, Chinese people outside of China show that their education aimed at test taking works damn well. China doesn't let them out anymore, but it's not lack of ability.
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> why aren't they leading in the generation of unique IP? Chinese manufacturing methods currently surpass America’s in many domains. More directly, China is poorer than America per capita. A smart kid given few resources will be outperformed by a duller kid in a gifted environment. That’s slowly changing, however, which is where this turns into a forward-looking risk. > anyways understanding China as if it were one giant entity operating in lockstep is peak western thinking This is a lazy dismissal. I’ve seen the same thinking in India and Japan. Stereotyping foreign cultures as monoliths is conserved for obvious reasons across human civilisation.
- spwa4 1y ago
  One aspect of China and so many countries outside of the west is just how unequal they are that people keep forgetting. Yes China is communist, at the very least in name. It is also incredibly unequal. So there are rich kids in China. And while inequality means per-capita less rich kids, but they tend to be much richer than a US rich kid, and China is easily 5 times bigger, so ... no shortage of very rich kids. And yes, some of them are smart. https://www.instagram.com/richkidsofchina/ https://www.instagram.com/richkidsofchina/ So no, it is not that there are no smart kids with resources in China. In fact quite the opposite. Perhaps it's like most countries outside of the west. I've seen this play out several times with Iranians. It's the environment, the government, the ideology. Iranians, the ones that managed to maintain some wealth, know what they're doing. They're pretty smart. A bunch of them go back every few years. In Iran, they don't achieve much. Outside of Iran, they achieve a lot. The same people. At least there resources would be a better explanation, but that's not it. In reality the Iranian state will brutally stamp out any public display of culture (because Iranian culture is anything but islamic. In fact, don't even call it Iranian. It's Persian). So what's left is Persians outside of Iran and drug parties.
jqpabc123 1y ago
Then why aren't they leading in the generation of unique IP? Accepting this as fact is peak western thinking. https://www.nature.com/nature-index/news/nature-index-research-leaders-united-states-losing-ground-china-lead-expands-rapidly https://www.nature.com/nature-index/news/nature-index-resear...

Then why aren't they leading in the generation of unique IP? Anyways understanding China as if it were one giant entity operating in lockstep is peak western thinking.

jay_kyburz 1y ago

I don't doubt they have heaps of unique IP but you don't see it because you don't speak Chinese and they don't bother to translate it for our benefit. They also have different values, so sometimes their movies and TV seem a little "off" for us. We don't find the same things funny, or heroic.

M95D 1y ago
^ that, and they probably don't value IP rights as much as the western world. I might be wrong but I have the impression they view it as a hindrance. Any chinese here that can share their view?
- general1465 1y ago
  > that, and they probably don't value IP rights as much as the western world No, that's actually completely untrue. Chinese (and Japanese too) has no problem to copy your IP, but they will fight tooth and nail to protect theirs. Nintendo is great example of that (look into history how they got big) for China it was recently when EU wants tech transfer in exchange for dropping tariffs on cars, which Chinese are not keen on at all. https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202510/1345710.shtml https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202510/1345710.shtml
- Sabinus 1y ago
  When you have no IP, you steal IP. When you have IP you make agreements with other countries to mutually respect IP.
themafia 1y ago
> and they don't bother to translate it for our benefit. There are organizations aside from the Chinese government that speak Chinese and could translate into other languages. I'm thinking specifically of any news reporting organization. > They also have different values They also span five different time zones. The values are no more consistent in their society then it is in any other.
- jay_kyburz 1y ago
  The point I was trying to make is the financial incentives are just not there. It costs money to translate (and localize) IPs and unless they are really good, people here are just not going to like them very much. (because cultural differences) Having said that, we do get some of the biggest games, movies and apps.

mamonster 1y ago

>Then why aren't they leading in the generation of unique IP? The simple answer is that they are still in the "copying" stage. China is what, like 30k GDP on a PPP basis? I think they are still in the stage where the marginal returns on simply copying stuff are higher than frontier research for most of the industries they are in. They don't have the problem of something like Switzerland, where we need to figure out what a 110k GDP PPP looks like (the countries above us right now cannot be replicated for obvious reasons). China can mix match its way to 40,50,60,70k PPP for the next 10 years.

__turbobrew__ 1y ago

Intelligence is a necessary but not sufficient condition to generating new technology. I don’t have firsthand experience, but I have heard that China is attempting to restructure their education programs which have been historically 100% aimed at test taking which is not a good way to produce leaders, original thought, and value to society. The elites of China still send their children abroad to study.

spwa4 1y ago
That's not the problem you keep hearing about. China is incredibly unequal. The education program is aimed at test taking because the only way to do anything is to first climb the ladder in the communist party. How do you get into the lowest rung of the communist party? How do you start climbing the ladder? Well, a test, the "Gaokao". There's your explanation. You need to know math, and of course exactly how Xi Jingping (and the CCP) is a god and the solution to all the worlds problems (there's 3 volumes about it which you have to know by hard: "习近平谈治国理政") Looks like (three of) this book: https://www.amazon.com/Xi-Jinping-Governance-Simplified-Chinese/dp/7119124102 https://www.amazon.com/Xi-Jinping-Governance-Simplified-Chin... If anything, Chinese people outside of China show that their education aimed at test taking works damn well. China doesn't let them out anymore, but it's not lack of ability.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> why aren't they leading in the generation of unique IP? Chinese manufacturing methods currently surpass America’s in many domains. More directly, China is poorer than America per capita. A smart kid given few resources will be outperformed by a duller kid in a gifted environment. That’s slowly changing, however, which is where this turns into a forward-looking risk. > anyways understanding China as if it were one giant entity operating in lockstep is peak western thinking This is a lazy dismissal. I’ve seen the same thinking in India and Japan. Stereotyping foreign cultures as monoliths is conserved for obvious reasons across human civilisation.

spwa4 1y ago
One aspect of China and so many countries outside of the west is just how unequal they are that people keep forgetting. Yes China is communist, at the very least in name. It is also incredibly unequal. So there are rich kids in China. And while inequality means per-capita less rich kids, but they tend to be much richer than a US rich kid, and China is easily 5 times bigger, so ... no shortage of very rich kids. And yes, some of them are smart. https://www.instagram.com/richkidsofchina/ https://www.instagram.com/richkidsofchina/ So no, it is not that there are no smart kids with resources in China. In fact quite the opposite. Perhaps it's like most countries outside of the west. I've seen this play out several times with Iranians. It's the environment, the government, the ideology. Iranians, the ones that managed to maintain some wealth, know what they're doing. They're pretty smart. A bunch of them go back every few years. In Iran, they don't achieve much. Outside of Iran, they achieve a lot. The same people. At least there resources would be a better explanation, but that's not it. In reality the Iranian state will brutally stamp out any public display of culture (because Iranian culture is anything but islamic. In fact, don't even call it Iranian. It's Persian). So what's left is Persians outside of Iran and drug parties.

jqpabc123 1y ago

Then why aren't they leading in the generation of unique IP? Accepting this as fact is peak western thinking. https://www.nature.com/nature-index/news/nature-index-research-leaders-united-states-losing-ground-china-lead-expands-rapidly https://www.nature.com/nature-index/news/nature-index-resear...