6 ms·

Why?

MiiMe19 1y ago
Different ideas on economics (socialism vs capitalism) and personal freedoms, lack of a shared cultural background anymore, etc.
- alpineman 1y ago
  Europe is also capitalist. The last time I checked we had stock exchanges, corporations, and private property laws.
- hjort-e 1y ago
  What countries in Europe are not capitalist? Genuine question. And who has less personal freedoms in your opinion?
- twixfel 1y ago
  This is just American nonsense. Literally every single country in Europe is capitalist. Socialism is the democratic ownership of the means of production. Nowhere do we have that in Europe. Frankly this is the real problem with America, about half the population are extremely poorly educated and yet extremely arrogant. A deadly combination, clearly, as it’s led to the very sudden decline and fall of the American Empire.
  - MiiMe19 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - exceptione 1y ago
      It is better to clarify what they misunderstood about you and what you misunderstood about them.
    - twixfel 1y ago
      You stated something objectively wrong (that European countries are socialist) and then get called out and your reply is just to get upset, literally no information content whatsoever. It's very on brand, I suppose, reminds me a lot of that fraudster, convicted rapist and known paedophile currently in the White House. Regardless, I agree we are going in separate directions, indeed the USA is no longer even a Western country. We had some good times, the American Empire was pretty great whilst it lasted, I wish you all the best.
      - MiiMe19 1y ago
        My entire point is that many Europeans love to call Americans stupid and uneducated about politics while acting the exact same way themselves, all without noticing the blatant hypocrisy. The difference between you and me and that I know and accept that I am an uneducated idiot about most things. I wish you all the best as well. Hopefully everything works out for the best for everyone involved.
        twixfel 1y ago
        There's nothing wrong with being stupid at all. I just don't understand why you have such strong opinions on something you clearly know nothing about. So: you don't like Europe, USA's oldest and most important allies because they're socialists. OK but Europe is not even socialist, literally all European countries are capitalist (objectively, it's an undeniable fact). Now what? Any reflection, reevaluation? No, you just get offended and tell me once again that you don't like me because I'm European and that's it. The enlightenment is dead in the USA, knowledge and facts no longer matter. Feelings over facts really won.
        MiiMe19 1y ago
        First, you failed to read past the first entry in my list of reasons, second you still do not seem to understand what I am saying. You tell me about how half the population of the country that I live in is poorly educated, stupid, and arrogant while you probably do not even live there and then tell me I remind you of a rapist because of that. You do not seem to notice that, if what you are saying is true, you come off as all of those things as well (not the rapist part though lol) because you are doing the exact same thing that I am, talking about something you have little to no direct experience in.
- StefanBatory 1y ago
  I genuinely can't tell whether you are serious or trolling. Please tell me more about how Europe is socialist. Or what does that even mean to you. Is socialism when state exists? You are not first American to say that, and every time it happens, I'm genuinely surprised. (I mean, rhetorical question. I suppose that's what socialism is to you. And you are a part of a problem too, because you are growing up internally people who genuinely believe that socialism is good because it means healthcare and higher education. Words no longer have meaning to you in America.)
  - MiiMe19 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - jonathanstrange 1y ago
      It's called social democracy, and much to the chagrin of real socialists this political tradition fully embraces capitalism.
    - vanviegen 1y ago
      > most European countries seem to be on a path towards socialism No, unfortunately the path in most European countries seems to be heading towards fascism, not socialism. We Europeans do tend to follow America in many things.
- jemmyw 1y ago
  Those don't seem like the best reasons. European and American economics are pretty close. Europe isn't socialist, it has broader welfare system than the US, but the US has significant welfare systems as well. I've lived in the US and in Europe and the UK. Shared culture is still very significant. If anything, maybe even closer now than in the 90s. There's probably other reasons to think about the why and how of alliances than these.
  - terminalshort 1y ago
    You are correct in terms of economics and culture, but the UK has turned extremely authoritarian and jails people for social media posts frequently.
    - twixfel 1y ago
      The UK is nowhere near as authoritarian as the USA currently is so I don't understand your criticism. If anything it could bring us together!
    - immibis 1y ago
      I'm okay with a country jailing people for the crime of tweeting "we should murder all trans people". That probably should be a crime. Punishment should fit the crime though, so no more than a few weeks.
      - MiiMe19 1y ago
        What about when they jail people for tweeting about how they don't want more immigrants?
        twixfel 1y ago
        Literally never happened. You just are way too online if you believe that. Try visiting the UK sometime, you clearly never been and it’s a great country.
    - jemmyw 1y ago
- nickserv 1y ago
  I'm genuinely curious, could you elaborate? Which European countries would you consider to be socialist? Or perhaps a better question is what makes a country socialist? Which personal freedoms are different in the US vs Europe? I've lived in both US and Europe, and have an opinion on this, but really would like your take.
- exceptione 1y ago
  > socialism vs capitalism I guess this might be a matter of conditioning. You might live in an environment where concepts around the stem "social" has become a pejorative. In that way it is understandable that a term like "social democrat" is interpreted as "communist". There does not exist anything you imagine like that. What is different is that there is more opposition and cultural resistance to hyper capitalism. Think monopolies, corporatism, live-to-work, hustle-culture. With regards to any messaging about "freedom" in the USA, be vigilant, I do think people will be unpleasantly surprised about what has been transacted away. Personal freedoms are indeed extremely important, so zero Schadenfreude here. And yes, those lobby groups in the EU fail to get their stupid anti-encryption laws passed, but they keep trying, so it is frightening. Citizens and visitors of the Five Eyes have lost any privacy already, but we need all of us to fight back. TLDR: it is better to cooperate around common causes than to fight imaginary opponents. We are in the same boat.
- BeetleB 1y ago
  > Different ideas on economics (socialism vs capitalism) and personal freedoms, lack of a shared cultural background anymore, etc. In other words, you mean there isn't any country that you think could be an ally to the US? Can you name any?

Why?

Different ideas on economics (socialism vs capitalism) and personal freedoms, lack of a shared cultural background anymore, etc.

alpineman 1y ago
Europe is also capitalist. The last time I checked we had stock exchanges, corporations, and private property laws.
hjort-e 1y ago
What countries in Europe are not capitalist? Genuine question. And who has less personal freedoms in your opinion?
twixfel 1y ago
This is just American nonsense. Literally every single country in Europe is capitalist. Socialism is the democratic ownership of the means of production. Nowhere do we have that in Europe. Frankly this is the real problem with America, about half the population are extremely poorly educated and yet extremely arrogant. A deadly combination, clearly, as it’s led to the very sudden decline and fall of the American Empire.
- MiiMe19 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - exceptione 1y ago
    It is better to clarify what they misunderstood about you and what you misunderstood about them.
  - twixfel 1y ago
    You stated something objectively wrong (that European countries are socialist) and then get called out and your reply is just to get upset, literally no information content whatsoever. It's very on brand, I suppose, reminds me a lot of that fraudster, convicted rapist and known paedophile currently in the White House. Regardless, I agree we are going in separate directions, indeed the USA is no longer even a Western country. We had some good times, the American Empire was pretty great whilst it lasted, I wish you all the best.
    - MiiMe19 1y ago
      My entire point is that many Europeans love to call Americans stupid and uneducated about politics while acting the exact same way themselves, all without noticing the blatant hypocrisy. The difference between you and me and that I know and accept that I am an uneducated idiot about most things. I wish you all the best as well. Hopefully everything works out for the best for everyone involved.
      - twixfel 1y ago
        There's nothing wrong with being stupid at all. I just don't understand why you have such strong opinions on something you clearly know nothing about. So: you don't like Europe, USA's oldest and most important allies because they're socialists. OK but Europe is not even socialist, literally all European countries are capitalist (objectively, it's an undeniable fact). Now what? Any reflection, reevaluation? No, you just get offended and tell me once again that you don't like me because I'm European and that's it. The enlightenment is dead in the USA, knowledge and facts no longer matter. Feelings over facts really won.
        MiiMe19 1y ago
        First, you failed to read past the first entry in my list of reasons, second you still do not seem to understand what I am saying. You tell me about how half the population of the country that I live in is poorly educated, stupid, and arrogant while you probably do not even live there and then tell me I remind you of a rapist because of that. You do not seem to notice that, if what you are saying is true, you come off as all of those things as well (not the rapist part though lol) because you are doing the exact same thing that I am, talking about something you have little to no direct experience in.
StefanBatory 1y ago
I genuinely can't tell whether you are serious or trolling. Please tell me more about how Europe is socialist. Or what does that even mean to you. Is socialism when state exists? You are not first American to say that, and every time it happens, I'm genuinely surprised. (I mean, rhetorical question. I suppose that's what socialism is to you. And you are a part of a problem too, because you are growing up internally people who genuinely believe that socialism is good because it means healthcare and higher education. Words no longer have meaning to you in America.)
- MiiMe19 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - jonathanstrange 1y ago
    It's called social democracy, and much to the chagrin of real socialists this political tradition fully embraces capitalism.
  - vanviegen 1y ago
    > most European countries seem to be on a path towards socialism No, unfortunately the path in most European countries seems to be heading towards fascism, not socialism. We Europeans do tend to follow America in many things.
jemmyw 1y ago
Those don't seem like the best reasons. European and American economics are pretty close. Europe isn't socialist, it has broader welfare system than the US, but the US has significant welfare systems as well. I've lived in the US and in Europe and the UK. Shared culture is still very significant. If anything, maybe even closer now than in the 90s. There's probably other reasons to think about the why and how of alliances than these.
- terminalshort 1y ago
  You are correct in terms of economics and culture, but the UK has turned extremely authoritarian and jails people for social media posts frequently.
  - twixfel 1y ago
    The UK is nowhere near as authoritarian as the USA currently is so I don't understand your criticism. If anything it could bring us together!
  - immibis 1y ago
    I'm okay with a country jailing people for the crime of tweeting "we should murder all trans people". That probably should be a crime. Punishment should fit the crime though, so no more than a few weeks.
    - MiiMe19 1y ago
      What about when they jail people for tweeting about how they don't want more immigrants?
      - twixfel 1y ago
        Literally never happened. You just are way too online if you believe that. Try visiting the UK sometime, you clearly never been and it’s a great country.
  - jemmyw 1y ago
nickserv 1y ago
I'm genuinely curious, could you elaborate? Which European countries would you consider to be socialist? Or perhaps a better question is what makes a country socialist? Which personal freedoms are different in the US vs Europe? I've lived in both US and Europe, and have an opinion on this, but really would like your take.
exceptione 1y ago
> socialism vs capitalism I guess this might be a matter of conditioning. You might live in an environment where concepts around the stem "social" has become a pejorative. In that way it is understandable that a term like "social democrat" is interpreted as "communist". There does not exist anything you imagine like that. What is different is that there is more opposition and cultural resistance to hyper capitalism. Think monopolies, corporatism, live-to-work, hustle-culture. With regards to any messaging about "freedom" in the USA, be vigilant, I do think people will be unpleasantly surprised about what has been transacted away. Personal freedoms are indeed extremely important, so zero Schadenfreude here. And yes, those lobby groups in the EU fail to get their stupid anti-encryption laws passed, but they keep trying, so it is frightening. Citizens and visitors of the Five Eyes have lost any privacy already, but we need all of us to fight back. TLDR: it is better to cooperate around common causes than to fight imaginary opponents. We are in the same boat.
BeetleB 1y ago
> Different ideas on economics (socialism vs capitalism) and personal freedoms, lack of a shared cultural background anymore, etc. In other words, you mean there isn't any country that you think could be an ally to the US? Can you name any?