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There seems to be a fad for "self hosting" things now. What I don't understand is: what happened to just having a single device and having it run the code direc

There seems to be a fad for "self hosting" things now. What I don't understand is: what happened to just having a single device and having it run the code directly and show you the result directly? For example, why can't the thing that connects to the Spotify API just... do that, from a program that runs locally, independent of a web browser, with a GUI created using a standard non-web GUI toolkit? Why would I want to use it by pointing my browser at a machine name (of another device I own) and port number, rather than by launching a dedicated program?

Semaphor 1y ago
Because most people have multiple devices. I self host about 20 services, that get accessed from 7 different devices for just 2 people.
zeroonetwothree 1y ago
I guess there are a few reasons: easier to develop cross platform, easier to reuse for non-self hosted, easier for programmers familiar with web development to implement, less activation cost for users, less friction to use with multiple devices.
joekrill 1y ago
Most people have many devices: phones, tablets, laptops, etc... so this makes that stuff accessible from anywhere. And if you lose your device, or it dies, you don't lose all your data. On that note: self-hosting allows you to centralize your backups.
- zahlman 1y ago
  I do have backup storage, of course. It's hard for me to imagine wanting to use a phone for anything other than making calls or sending SMS; that's what I've been doing for many years now and I see no reason to change. But if I did have a tablet or laptop, I could just sync the program to it and run it locally. Maybe using, for example, good old rsync. And I can't imagine being away from "home base" on a laptop for long enough (or using it for anything critical enough) to really worry about how to achieve "centralized backups". I'd rather not transmit that data over the Internet when I could just connect the laptop physically to my backup storage when I got home.
  - bigstrat2003 1y ago
    > It's hard for me to imagine wanting to use a phone for anything other than making calls or sending SMS Not even listening to music in the car? That is probably my #1 phone use case by far outside of the communications functions you mentioned. I run a Navidrome server at home, and while on the go my phone can stream any music I like from the home server (so I don't need to load it in advance). In theory one might store the music on one's phone of course, but I have more music than my phone will hold and it's very nice to be able to access whatever I want to listen to at will.
    - ZoomZoomZoom 1y ago
      How come the connection is stable enough to be streaming on the go from the car? Or is there some serious caching happening?
      - com2kid 1y ago
        MP3s are tiny. Just download + cache the n and n+1 song. On a modern 4g or 5g connection downloading an entire song takes seconds. Anytime a new song starts up, grab the n+1 song as soon as possible. But aside from that, inside any metro area even a 200ms or so buffer would likely suffice for streaming music.
        ZoomZoomZoom 1y ago
        Yep, and OPUS files are even lighter. That's why I just sync a "currently listening" music folder with Syncthing and do not think about connection, caching and all that. (I have the rest reachable when I need it, of course.) 200ms and even n+1 won't cut it for a subway, a semi-basement pub, a tunnel, a train or an airplane trip, a hike, a countryside visit, etc.
    - zahlman 1y ago
      > Not even listening to music in the car? I generally prefer to have access to all my senses on public transit, but there are any number of other portable devices I could use that store the music locally. > I have more music than my phone will hold and it's very nice to be able to access whatever I want to listen to at will. If I were going to choose from among that much music I might as well search the Internet anyway. An entry-level microSD the size of my thumbnail now holds a couple hundred CDs worth (at uncompressed CD quality; several times that for high-quality opus).
manbitesdog 1y ago
I guess to avoid having to install such dedicated programs for you and everyone you give access to, or just to have fun coding some little web project
cma 1y ago
You'll need to port that to windows, linux, Mac, android, and ios for a typical device mix of someone doing self-hosting, and no access from more closed platforms that have a browser.
- zahlman 1y ago
  I can understand Linux programs not being easily made to work on Android, but I can't understand why I'd ever need or want a device that runs Android and a device that runs IOS. Unless they're test devices for development, but I wouldn't be using those to access services in my day-to-day life.
  - cma 1y ago
    Think multi user households too. But many people have a few ios devices even if they primarily use android (apple tv, vision pro) and vice versa.
  - Larrikin 1y ago
    I dislike the iOS experience and have used an Android phone daily for nearly 15 years. The iPad Pro is objectively better than any Android tablet, even with the limitations of the OS.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
0x01FE 1y ago
Specifically with the Spotify service, the problem with the Spotify API is that you can only request listening data for the last 100 played songs iirc. You can manually request the data from Spotify, but it will take them a month or two to give you the data and it will be a snapshot of it. So if you want live updates on statistics about your listening habits you need a service running 24/7 querying the Spotify API and storing the information in a database. Assumedly since most people don't have a computer to run this on 24/7, a server is necessary / preferred. I've actually written an application doing something similar, it's very annoying that Spotify's API works like this.
ekjhgkejhgk 1y ago
I think people don't know what they want, but they like fiddling with computers. So, they imagine future scenarios where they would have problems (which they don't) and imagine solutions for those problems they don't have, and spend time implementing those solutions. For example. Whenever RSS comes up, I say that newsboat is the best thing. People don't like it because it doesn't synchronize devices. Really? Why not have a device for reading, and read there? I have newsboat on my laptop and I A) don't have to read on my phone, B) can't read on my phone, and C) don't have to spend my free time doing unpaid maintenance for a job which I created for myself. Win-win-win.
- npodbielski 1y ago
  Maybe for some. But for me I do not want giant corp own my data. Like I do give keys to my house to some company or I do not have people manage my own money. Just as a principle.
  - ekjhgkejhgk 1y ago
    newsboat doesn't give anyone any data.
    - npodbielski 1y ago
      Never heard of it. I just tried to explain to you why I DO THIS.
- AndrewDucker 1y ago
  I read RSS on my desktop when I'm at home, on my work laptop when I'm at work, and on my phone in-between. And that works perfectly. Why would I want to reduce my options?
- thiht 1y ago
  > Why not have a device for reading, and read there? I'm curious to know why you think this way of doing is "correct"? I like reading my RSS feeds on my phone. And on my laptop. And on my tablet, sometimes.
npodbielski 1y ago
Others already answered with information that you usually have more devices then just 1. So you can have access to your data from PC, laptop and your phone. I for once also like to have my own data my own. I.e. I have: - my own email server - my own files sharing service - service for cardDav, CalDav etc. - service for editing my own office files on mobile - notes that are synchronized - streaming of movies and music - build and git server - my own smart home service - notification service - chat - VPN - desktop sharing service - my own DNS for blocking adds - and others
- leosanchez 1y ago
  Can you list out the names of services?
  - mkayokay 1y ago
    You could have a look at the following list, as there are a lot of options to choose from in each category: https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted
  - npodbielski 1y ago
    Sure but not here. It is too public forum. Drop me an email and I send you some examples.
- bjoli 1y ago
  I tried various Things to be able to access my own DNA while not at home and ended up using wire guard for my subnet so that I always have access to my DNA server. Right now I am solving it with mikrotiks "back to home" app., but the regular wire guard app does it as well. It uses very little battery.
  - bjoli 1y ago
    So, I am a victim of autocorrect. I mean DNS.
  - 1y ago
conor- 1y ago
> what happened to just having a single device and having it run the code directly and show you the result directly? Having access to multiple computers/devices as a single user became cheap and more common. If it was still the 2000s (or maybe early 2010s) and somebody only used a single PC for most of their tasks that'd make sense, but that's just not the reality most people live anymore
- zahlman 1y ago
  As far as I can tell, the price range for consumer PCs hasn't really moved since then. If anything it's worse now for people who expect to have a good quality graphics card. Owning a smartphone outright isn't cheap, either.
  - conor- 1y ago
    You can buy a mini pc for >$200 USD that is capable of running most desktop tasks and can also handle server tasks. Good quality integrated graphics APUs are also plentiful and fairly easy to come by these days.
estimator7292 1y ago
A lot of the stuff we're selfhosting just.... isn't a standalone application. My mastodon server has to run always to get messages. My nexcloud has to be always on to get my phone backups. The only thing that might make sense to be local is media, but only if you don't share with someone else and you want to maintain an offline copy of your library on each device you use. In general, it's stuff that needs to be shared or needs to run 24/7. A lot of that just doesn't make any sense as a desktop application. All rationalization aside, it's a hobby. It's fun. People spin up hulking enterprise gear at home and run jellyfin just for kicks. It's not supposed to be at all practical or to even make sense. It's silly nonsense on purpose.
j45 1y ago
I don't think it's a fad. Just more people talking about it openly that might be doing it. New to me might not mean new to others. Self hosting is not valued on what someone else self-hosts, it's about what you self host that's valuable to you.

Semaphor 1y ago

Because most people have multiple devices. I self host about 20 services, that get accessed from 7 different devices for just 2 people.

zeroonetwothree 1y ago

I guess there are a few reasons: easier to develop cross platform, easier to reuse for non-self hosted, easier for programmers familiar with web development to implement, less activation cost for users, less friction to use with multiple devices.

joekrill 1y ago

Most people have many devices: phones, tablets, laptops, etc... so this makes that stuff accessible from anywhere. And if you lose your device, or it dies, you don't lose all your data. On that note: self-hosting allows you to centralize your backups.

zahlman 1y ago
I do have backup storage, of course. It's hard for me to imagine wanting to use a phone for anything other than making calls or sending SMS; that's what I've been doing for many years now and I see no reason to change. But if I did have a tablet or laptop, I could just sync the program to it and run it locally. Maybe using, for example, good old rsync. And I can't imagine being away from "home base" on a laptop for long enough (or using it for anything critical enough) to really worry about how to achieve "centralized backups". I'd rather not transmit that data over the Internet when I could just connect the laptop physically to my backup storage when I got home.
- bigstrat2003 1y ago
  > It's hard for me to imagine wanting to use a phone for anything other than making calls or sending SMS Not even listening to music in the car? That is probably my #1 phone use case by far outside of the communications functions you mentioned. I run a Navidrome server at home, and while on the go my phone can stream any music I like from the home server (so I don't need to load it in advance). In theory one might store the music on one's phone of course, but I have more music than my phone will hold and it's very nice to be able to access whatever I want to listen to at will.
  - ZoomZoomZoom 1y ago
    How come the connection is stable enough to be streaming on the go from the car? Or is there some serious caching happening?
    - com2kid 1y ago
      MP3s are tiny. Just download + cache the n and n+1 song. On a modern 4g or 5g connection downloading an entire song takes seconds. Anytime a new song starts up, grab the n+1 song as soon as possible. But aside from that, inside any metro area even a 200ms or so buffer would likely suffice for streaming music.
      - ZoomZoomZoom 1y ago
        Yep, and OPUS files are even lighter. That's why I just sync a "currently listening" music folder with Syncthing and do not think about connection, caching and all that. (I have the rest reachable when I need it, of course.) 200ms and even n+1 won't cut it for a subway, a semi-basement pub, a tunnel, a train or an airplane trip, a hike, a countryside visit, etc.
  - zahlman 1y ago
    > Not even listening to music in the car? I generally prefer to have access to all my senses on public transit, but there are any number of other portable devices I could use that store the music locally. > I have more music than my phone will hold and it's very nice to be able to access whatever I want to listen to at will. If I were going to choose from among that much music I might as well search the Internet anyway. An entry-level microSD the size of my thumbnail now holds a couple hundred CDs worth (at uncompressed CD quality; several times that for high-quality opus).

manbitesdog 1y ago

I guess to avoid having to install such dedicated programs for you and everyone you give access to, or just to have fun coding some little web project

cma 1y ago

You'll need to port that to windows, linux, Mac, android, and ios for a typical device mix of someone doing self-hosting, and no access from more closed platforms that have a browser.

zahlman 1y ago
I can understand Linux programs not being easily made to work on Android, but I can't understand why I'd ever need or want a device that runs Android and a device that runs IOS. Unless they're test devices for development, but I wouldn't be using those to access services in my day-to-day life.
- cma 1y ago
  Think multi user households too. But many people have a few ios devices even if they primarily use android (apple tv, vision pro) and vice versa.
- Larrikin 1y ago
  I dislike the iOS experience and have used an Android phone daily for nearly 15 years. The iPad Pro is objectively better than any Android tablet, even with the limitations of the OS.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

0x01FE 1y ago

Specifically with the Spotify service, the problem with the Spotify API is that you can only request listening data for the last 100 played songs iirc. You can manually request the data from Spotify, but it will take them a month or two to give you the data and it will be a snapshot of it. So if you want live updates on statistics about your listening habits you need a service running 24/7 querying the Spotify API and storing the information in a database. Assumedly since most people don't have a computer to run this on 24/7, a server is necessary / preferred. I've actually written an application doing something similar, it's very annoying that Spotify's API works like this.

ekjhgkejhgk 1y ago

I think people don't know what they want, but they like fiddling with computers. So, they imagine future scenarios where they would have problems (which they don't) and imagine solutions for those problems they don't have, and spend time implementing those solutions. For example. Whenever RSS comes up, I say that newsboat is the best thing. People don't like it because it doesn't synchronize devices. Really? Why not have a device for reading, and read there? I have newsboat on my laptop and I A) don't have to read on my phone, B) can't read on my phone, and C) don't have to spend my free time doing unpaid maintenance for a job which I created for myself. Win-win-win.

npodbielski 1y ago
Maybe for some. But for me I do not want giant corp own my data. Like I do give keys to my house to some company or I do not have people manage my own money. Just as a principle.
- ekjhgkejhgk 1y ago
  newsboat doesn't give anyone any data.
  - npodbielski 1y ago
    Never heard of it. I just tried to explain to you why I DO THIS.
AndrewDucker 1y ago
I read RSS on my desktop when I'm at home, on my work laptop when I'm at work, and on my phone in-between. And that works perfectly. Why would I want to reduce my options?
thiht 1y ago
> Why not have a device for reading, and read there? I'm curious to know why you think this way of doing is "correct"? I like reading my RSS feeds on my phone. And on my laptop. And on my tablet, sometimes.

npodbielski 1y ago

Others already answered with information that you usually have more devices then just 1. So you can have access to your data from PC, laptop and your phone. I for once also like to have my own data my own. I.e. I have: - my own email server - my own files sharing service - service for cardDav, CalDav etc. - service for editing my own office files on mobile - notes that are synchronized - streaming of movies and music - build and git server - my own smart home service - notification service - chat - VPN - desktop sharing service - my own DNS for blocking adds - and others

leosanchez 1y ago
Can you list out the names of services?
- mkayokay 1y ago
  You could have a look at the following list, as there are a lot of options to choose from in each category: https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted
- npodbielski 1y ago
  Sure but not here. It is too public forum. Drop me an email and I send you some examples.
bjoli 1y ago
I tried various Things to be able to access my own DNA while not at home and ended up using wire guard for my subnet so that I always have access to my DNA server. Right now I am solving it with mikrotiks "back to home" app., but the regular wire guard app does it as well. It uses very little battery.
- bjoli 1y ago
  So, I am a victim of autocorrect. I mean DNS.
- 1y ago

conor- 1y ago

> what happened to just having a single device and having it run the code directly and show you the result directly? Having access to multiple computers/devices as a single user became cheap and more common. If it was still the 2000s (or maybe early 2010s) and somebody only used a single PC for most of their tasks that'd make sense, but that's just not the reality most people live anymore

zahlman 1y ago
As far as I can tell, the price range for consumer PCs hasn't really moved since then. If anything it's worse now for people who expect to have a good quality graphics card. Owning a smartphone outright isn't cheap, either.
- conor- 1y ago
  You can buy a mini pc for >$200 USD that is capable of running most desktop tasks and can also handle server tasks. Good quality integrated graphics APUs are also plentiful and fairly easy to come by these days.

estimator7292 1y ago

A lot of the stuff we're selfhosting just.... isn't a standalone application. My mastodon server has to run always to get messages. My nexcloud has to be always on to get my phone backups. The only thing that might make sense to be local is media, but only if you don't share with someone else and you want to maintain an offline copy of your library on each device you use. In general, it's stuff that needs to be shared or needs to run 24/7. A lot of that just doesn't make any sense as a desktop application. All rationalization aside, it's a hobby. It's fun. People spin up hulking enterprise gear at home and run jellyfin just for kicks. It's not supposed to be at all practical or to even make sense. It's silly nonsense on purpose.

j45 1y ago

I don't think it's a fad. Just more people talking about it openly that might be doing it. New to me might not mean new to others. Self hosting is not valued on what someone else self-hosts, it's about what you self host that's valuable to you.