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China's innovation relies on the stolen western IP, without it, China is nothing. Also USSR/Russia is no longer a scientific powerhouse that can supply China wi

China's innovation relies on the stolen western IP, without it, China is nothing. Also USSR/Russia is no longer a scientific powerhouse that can supply China with some military innovation. A dictatorship combined with cheap labour it 100% guarantees that the country's innovation is stunted, no matter what the Chinese propaganda claims.

Hikikomori 1y ago
And the US has never stolen IP?
- myth_drannon 1y ago
  Corporate espionage is ever present but it is criminalized. The only time US as a country did that you can say "stole IP" was after WII when it took Nazi rocket scientists and technology. China is the opposite; stealing tech is done by the state apparatus (same was done by USSR and reverse engineering computers for example). Frankly I'm not surprised that this is done, probably if US was so behind it would have done the same to reduce the gap. Everyone is trying to survive and outsmart and outwit the other, instead of collaborating.
  - currydove 1y ago
    Negative. https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/the-spies-who-launched-americas-industrial-revolution https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/the-spies-who-... https://yawboadu.substack.com/p/stealing-success-how-ip-theft-built https://yawboadu.substack.com/p/stealing-success-how-ip-thef... https://ipwatchdog.com/2017/07/05/americas-industrial-revolution-based-trade-secret-theft/ https://ipwatchdog.com/2017/07/05/americas-industrial-revolu...
  - g8oz 1y ago
    You are mistaken about American intellectual property theft. They engaged in extensive IP theft from Britain in the 18th and 19th century with the encouragement of the government. See https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/the-spies-who-launched-americas-industrial-revolution https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/the-spies-who-... Also during World War I the American government seized German chemical patents thereby launching the American chemical industry. So that is an example of theft by the state apparatus.
    - myth_drannon 1y ago
      I'm talking about modern times, after WW2. Not when US had slavery and lynching, blacks was a form of entertainment.
      - philippejara 1y ago
        After it took over and solidified itself as the world leader at it of course there was no need to steal IP anymore, most of it is registered there already and to the benefit of their nation. I'm sure people a hundred years from now will be having similar conversations if china or someone else takes the us's place and naturally starts caring about IP(and the runner ups stop caring).
  - zorked 1y ago
    NSA 'engaged in industrial espionage' - Snowden (2014) https://www.bbc.com/news/25907502 https://www.bbc.com/news/25907502
- thelastgallon 1y ago
  No, they haven't! https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88dc53 https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88...
lossolo 1y ago
Every single sentence you wrote is untrue and can be disproven by empirical evidence. You can learn about it here[1][2]. 1. https://itif.org/publications/2024/09/16/china-is-rapidly-becoming-a-leading-innovator-in-advanced-industries https://itif.org/publications/2024/09/16/china-is-rapidly-be... 2. https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2024/06/12/china-has-become-a-scientific-superpower https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2024/06/12/...
DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
Nowadays, China produces about the same amount of high-quality R&D as the US does. Your view of China is several decades out of date. Chinese labor isn't even that cheap any more. China is moving up the value chain and outsourcing production that needs cheap labor to poorer countries (or replacing workers with robots altogether).

Hikikomori 1y ago

And the US has never stolen IP?

myth_drannon 1y ago
Corporate espionage is ever present but it is criminalized. The only time US as a country did that you can say "stole IP" was after WII when it took Nazi rocket scientists and technology. China is the opposite; stealing tech is done by the state apparatus (same was done by USSR and reverse engineering computers for example). Frankly I'm not surprised that this is done, probably if US was so behind it would have done the same to reduce the gap. Everyone is trying to survive and outsmart and outwit the other, instead of collaborating.
- currydove 1y ago
  Negative. https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/the-spies-who-launched-americas-industrial-revolution https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/the-spies-who-... https://yawboadu.substack.com/p/stealing-success-how-ip-theft-built https://yawboadu.substack.com/p/stealing-success-how-ip-thef... https://ipwatchdog.com/2017/07/05/americas-industrial-revolution-based-trade-secret-theft/ https://ipwatchdog.com/2017/07/05/americas-industrial-revolu...
- g8oz 1y ago
  You are mistaken about American intellectual property theft. They engaged in extensive IP theft from Britain in the 18th and 19th century with the encouragement of the government. See https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/the-spies-who-launched-americas-industrial-revolution https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/the-spies-who-... Also during World War I the American government seized German chemical patents thereby launching the American chemical industry. So that is an example of theft by the state apparatus.
  - myth_drannon 1y ago
    I'm talking about modern times, after WW2. Not when US had slavery and lynching, blacks was a form of entertainment.
    - philippejara 1y ago
      After it took over and solidified itself as the world leader at it of course there was no need to steal IP anymore, most of it is registered there already and to the benefit of their nation. I'm sure people a hundred years from now will be having similar conversations if china or someone else takes the us's place and naturally starts caring about IP(and the runner ups stop caring).
- zorked 1y ago
  NSA 'engaged in industrial espionage' - Snowden (2014) https://www.bbc.com/news/25907502 https://www.bbc.com/news/25907502
thelastgallon 1y ago
No, they haven't! https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88dc53 https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88...

lossolo 1y ago

Every single sentence you wrote is untrue and can be disproven by empirical evidence. You can learn about it here[1][2]. 1. https://itif.org/publications/2024/09/16/china-is-rapidly-becoming-a-leading-innovator-in-advanced-industries https://itif.org/publications/2024/09/16/china-is-rapidly-be... 2. https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2024/06/12/china-has-become-a-scientific-superpower https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2024/06/12/...

DiogenesKynikos 1y ago

Nowadays, China produces about the same amount of high-quality R&D as the US does. Your view of China is several decades out of date. Chinese labor isn't even that cheap any more. China is moving up the value chain and outsourcing production that needs cheap labor to poorer countries (or replacing workers with robots altogether).