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> I'd rather go with Hetzner and cobble up together some failover than pay AWS extortion. Comments like this are so exaggerated that they risk moving the goodw

> I'd rather go with Hetzner and cobble up together some failover than pay AWS extortion. Comments like this are so exaggerated that they risk moving the goodwill needle back to where it was before. Hetzner offers no service that is similar to DynamoDB, IAM or Lambda. If you are going to praise Hetzner as a valid alternative during a DynamoDB outage caused by DNS configuration, you would need to a) argue that Hetzner is a better option regarding DNS outages, b) Hetzner is a preferable option for those who use serverless offers. I say this as a long-time Hetzner user. Herzner is indeed cheaper, but don't pretend that Herzner let's you click your way into a highly-availale nosql data store. You need non-trivial levels of you're ow work to develop, deploy, and maintain such a service.

mschuster91 1y ago
> Hetzner offers no service that is similar to DynamoDB, IAM or Lambda. The key thing you should ask yourself: do you need DynamoDB or Lambda? Like "need need" or "my resume needs Lambda".
- darkwater 1y ago
  Well, Lambda scales down to 0 so I don't have to pay for the expensive EC2 instan... oh, wait!
- motorest 1y ago
  > The key thing you should ask yourself: do you need DynamoDB or Lambda? Like "need need" or "my resume needs Lambda". If you read the message you're replying to, you will notice that I singled out IAM, Lambda, and DynamoDB because those services were affected by the outage. If Hetzner is pushed as a better or even relevant alternative, you need to be able to explain exactly what you are hoping to say to Lambda/IAM/DynamoDB users to convince them that they would do better if they used Hetzner instead. Making up conspiracy theories over CVs doesn't cut it. Either you know anything about the topic and you actually are able to support this idea, or you're an eternal September admission whose only contribution is noise and memes. What is it?
esskay 1y ago
Are you Netflix? Because is not theres a 99% probability you dont need any of those AWS services and just have a severe case of shiny object syndrome in your organisation. Plenty of heavy traffic, high redundancy applications exist without the need for AWS (or any other cloud providers) overpriced "bespoke" systems.
- rafaelmn 1y ago
  To be honest I don't trust myself running a HA PostgreSQL setup with correct backups without spending an exorbitant effort to investigate everything (weeks/months) - do you ? I'm not even sure what effort that would take. I can't remember last time I worked with unmanaged DB in prod where I did not have a dedicated DBA/sysadmin. And I've been doing this for 15 years now. AFAIK Hetzner offers no managed database solution. I know they offer some load balancer so there's that at least. At some point in the scaling journey bare metal might be the right choice, but I get the feeling a lot of people here trivialize it.
  - cdelsolar 1y ago
    If youre not Netflix then just sudo yum install postgresql and pg_dump every day, upload to S3. Has worked for me for 20 years at various companies, side projects, startups …
    - rafaelmn 1y ago
      What happens when the server goes down ? How do you update it ?
      - cdelsolar 1y ago
        you stand up another db server and load the last good dump into it i suppose
    - motorest 1y ago
      > If youre not Netflix then just sudo yum install postgresql and pg_dump every day, upload to S3. database services such as DynamoDB support a few backup strategies out of the box, including continuous backups. You just need to flips switch and never bother about it again. > Has worked for me for 20 years at various companies, side projects, startups … That's perfectly fine. There are still developers who don't even use version control at all. Some old habits die hard, even when the whole world moved on.
ViewTrick1002 1y ago
If you need the absolutely stupid scale DynamoDB enables what is the difference compared to running for example FoundationDb on your own using Hetzner? You will in both cases need specialized people.
1dom 1y ago
> but don't pretend that Herzner let's you click your way into a highly-availale nosql data store. The idea you can click your way to a highly available, production configured anything in AWS - especially involving Dynamo, IAM and Lambda - is something I've only heard from people who've done AWS quickstarts but never run anything at scale in AWS. Of course nobody else offers AWS products, but people use AWS for their solutions to compute problems and it can be easy to forget virtually all other providers offer solutions to all the same problems.
- ApolloFortyNine 1y ago
  >The idea you can click your way to a highly available, production configured anything in AWS - especially involving Dynamo, IAM and Lambda With some services I'd agree with you, but DynamoDB and Lambda are easily two of their 'simplest' to configure and understand services, and two of the ones that scale the easiest. IAM roles can be decently complicated, but that's really up to the user. If it's just 'let the Lambda talk to the table' it's simple enough. S3/SQS/Lambda/DynamoDB are the services that I'd consider the 'barebones' of the cloud. If you don't have all those, you're not a cloud provider, your just another server vendor.
  - manquer 1y ago
    > Lambda are easily two of their 'simplest' Not if you want to build something production ready. Even a simple thing like say static IP ingress for the Lambda is very complicated. The only AWS way you can do this is by using Global Accelerator -> Application Load Balancer -> VPC Endpoint -> API Gateway -> Lambda !!. There are so many limits for everything that is very hard to run production workloads without painful time wasted in re-architecture around them and the support teams are close to useless to raise any limits. Just in the last few months, I have hit limits on CloudFormation stack size, ALB rules, API gateway custom domains, Parameter Store size limits and on and on. That is not even touching on the laughably basic tooling both SAM and CDK provides for local development if you want to work with Lambda. Sure Firecracker is great, and the cold starts are not bad, and there isn't anybody even close on the cloud. Azure functions is unspeakably horrible, Cloud Run is just meh. Most Open Source stacks are either super complex like knative or just quite hard to get the same cold start performance. We are stuck with AWS Lambda with nothing better yes, but oh so many times I have come close to just giving up and migrate to knative despite the complexity and performance hit.
sgarland 1y ago
> click your way into a HA NoSQL data store Maybe not click, but Scylla’s install script [0] doesn’t seem overly complicated. 0: https://docs.scylladb.com/manual/stable/getting-started/installation-common/scylla-web-installer.html https://docs.scylladb.com/manual/stable/getting-started/inst...

mschuster91 1y ago

> Hetzner offers no service that is similar to DynamoDB, IAM or Lambda. The key thing you should ask yourself: do you need DynamoDB or Lambda? Like "need need" or "my resume needs Lambda".

darkwater 1y ago
Well, Lambda scales down to 0 so I don't have to pay for the expensive EC2 instan... oh, wait!
motorest 1y ago
> The key thing you should ask yourself: do you need DynamoDB or Lambda? Like "need need" or "my resume needs Lambda". If you read the message you're replying to, you will notice that I singled out IAM, Lambda, and DynamoDB because those services were affected by the outage. If Hetzner is pushed as a better or even relevant alternative, you need to be able to explain exactly what you are hoping to say to Lambda/IAM/DynamoDB users to convince them that they would do better if they used Hetzner instead. Making up conspiracy theories over CVs doesn't cut it. Either you know anything about the topic and you actually are able to support this idea, or you're an eternal September admission whose only contribution is noise and memes. What is it?

esskay 1y ago

Are you Netflix? Because is not theres a 99% probability you dont need any of those AWS services and just have a severe case of shiny object syndrome in your organisation. Plenty of heavy traffic, high redundancy applications exist without the need for AWS (or any other cloud providers) overpriced "bespoke" systems.

rafaelmn 1y ago
To be honest I don't trust myself running a HA PostgreSQL setup with correct backups without spending an exorbitant effort to investigate everything (weeks/months) - do you ? I'm not even sure what effort that would take. I can't remember last time I worked with unmanaged DB in prod where I did not have a dedicated DBA/sysadmin. And I've been doing this for 15 years now. AFAIK Hetzner offers no managed database solution. I know they offer some load balancer so there's that at least. At some point in the scaling journey bare metal might be the right choice, but I get the feeling a lot of people here trivialize it.
- cdelsolar 1y ago
  If youre not Netflix then just sudo yum install postgresql and pg_dump every day, upload to S3. Has worked for me for 20 years at various companies, side projects, startups …
  - rafaelmn 1y ago
    What happens when the server goes down ? How do you update it ?
    - cdelsolar 1y ago
      you stand up another db server and load the last good dump into it i suppose
  - motorest 1y ago
    > If youre not Netflix then just sudo yum install postgresql and pg_dump every day, upload to S3. database services such as DynamoDB support a few backup strategies out of the box, including continuous backups. You just need to flips switch and never bother about it again. > Has worked for me for 20 years at various companies, side projects, startups … That's perfectly fine. There are still developers who don't even use version control at all. Some old habits die hard, even when the whole world moved on.

ViewTrick1002 1y ago

If you need the absolutely stupid scale DynamoDB enables what is the difference compared to running for example FoundationDb on your own using Hetzner? You will in both cases need specialized people.

1dom 1y ago

> but don't pretend that Herzner let's you click your way into a highly-availale nosql data store. The idea you can click your way to a highly available, production configured anything in AWS - especially involving Dynamo, IAM and Lambda - is something I've only heard from people who've done AWS quickstarts but never run anything at scale in AWS. Of course nobody else offers AWS products, but people use AWS for their solutions to compute problems and it can be easy to forget virtually all other providers offer solutions to all the same problems.

ApolloFortyNine 1y ago
>The idea you can click your way to a highly available, production configured anything in AWS - especially involving Dynamo, IAM and Lambda With some services I'd agree with you, but DynamoDB and Lambda are easily two of their 'simplest' to configure and understand services, and two of the ones that scale the easiest. IAM roles can be decently complicated, but that's really up to the user. If it's just 'let the Lambda talk to the table' it's simple enough. S3/SQS/Lambda/DynamoDB are the services that I'd consider the 'barebones' of the cloud. If you don't have all those, you're not a cloud provider, your just another server vendor.
- manquer 1y ago
  > Lambda are easily two of their 'simplest' Not if you want to build something production ready. Even a simple thing like say static IP ingress for the Lambda is very complicated. The only AWS way you can do this is by using Global Accelerator -> Application Load Balancer -> VPC Endpoint -> API Gateway -> Lambda !!. There are so many limits for everything that is very hard to run production workloads without painful time wasted in re-architecture around them and the support teams are close to useless to raise any limits. Just in the last few months, I have hit limits on CloudFormation stack size, ALB rules, API gateway custom domains, Parameter Store size limits and on and on. That is not even touching on the laughably basic tooling both SAM and CDK provides for local development if you want to work with Lambda. Sure Firecracker is great, and the cold starts are not bad, and there isn't anybody even close on the cloud. Azure functions is unspeakably horrible, Cloud Run is just meh. Most Open Source stacks are either super complex like knative or just quite hard to get the same cold start performance. We are stuck with AWS Lambda with nothing better yes, but oh so many times I have come close to just giving up and migrate to knative despite the complexity and performance hit.

sgarland 1y ago

> click your way into a HA NoSQL data store Maybe not click, but Scylla’s install script [0] doesn’t seem overly complicated. 0: https://docs.scylladb.com/manual/stable/getting-started/installation-common/scylla-web-installer.html https://docs.scylladb.com/manual/stable/getting-started/inst...