3 ms·
2035 is a massive "screw you, stop being poor" for Eastern and Southern members of the EU where the electrical infrastructure is weak in many parts. EVs need to
by okanat 1y ago
2035 is a massive "screw you, stop being poor" for Eastern and Southern members of the EU where the electrical infrastructure is weak in many parts. EVs need to get 1/3 of the price they are now to be viable in those markets where people buy Dacias, Fiats or Seats.
Without massively improving the infrastructure, it is just shooting both the industrial members by killing a well developed product class and the private individuals who cannot buy cheaper budget ICE vehicles. I am all for developing this infrastructure as green as possible. Trying to force it in this short of a timespan is just stupid.
- marssaxman 1y agoThis is only a problem if trade barriers force it to be a problem; average EV prices in China have already dropped below average ICE vehicle prices.
- impossiblefork 1y agoDacia Spring is probably viable in those markets, and I think we actually intend for them to stop being poor.
- ZeroGravitas 1y agoWhat you are suggesting is a Vimes' Boots approach to keeping those countries poor. You don't have enough money to buy the cars with lower TCO that you can fuel with renewables installed in your own country, or at worst from EU neighbours? Instead you need to buy the "cheap" ICE car and then pay again and again and again to import fuels and somehow you have the money for that? Plus, has anyone who actually runs a grid in that country suggested EVs would be a bad thing? Generally they welcome them as they help bring costs down by using off peak power. So you've shot yourself in another foot by falling for this propaganda.
- okanat 1y agoI didn't suggest that Eastern EU should stay with ICEs forever. I just argued that 2035 is too early of a deadline. Infrastructure for importing and processing fossil fuels has been organically developed and it is there everywhere. The European grid and the EV charging stations aren't. Chinese manufacturers can make cheap cars however many poorer EU countries have actual car factories in them and we probably don't want to close those either. So either EU Car companies will buckle and make actually affordable cars and EU energy companies get economic incentives and legal help to cut through the bureaucracy of each member state or we stay with ICEs longer. Similarly many landlords in EU countries need to be incentivized to install chargers. Most working class people rent in EU now. Without home charging EVs have less economic incentives. Without making economic and legal arrangements, forcing poorer countries to buy more expensive cars that cannot be charged is the stupid decision here.
- ZeroGravitas 1y ago[flagged]
- okanat 1y agoYou are approaching this conversation as if a violent battle and assume bad intent. No more responses.
- whatevaa 1y agoOlder apartment buildings don't get to use home charging. There is shit ton of them. Without home charging, EV's suck, including financially, as it ends up being more expensive than fossils. Electricity prices in most of Europe not cheap.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]