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Interestingly, these robots aren't that smart. It just goes to show how much you can build by engineering a whole system, and not expecting a single robot to be

Interestingly, these robots aren't that smart. It just goes to show how much you can build by engineering a whole system, and not expecting a single robot to be that intelligent. For example, the vision system is essentially built with fiducials (markers like QR codes) on the trays. These robots could do nothing in your basement. I'm not saying this is bad - it's actually awesome to see more real robotics companies selling products. My point is that I really look forward to robots that can perceive their environment better and manipulate objects in it with dexterity. That will really knock your socks off.

sho 18y ago
Amen. Proper computer vision would revolutionise .. well, an awful lot of things. Let's just hope it doesn't turn out like Manna, though .. http://www.marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm http://www.marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm
- ivankirigin 18y ago
  Marshall Brain has some interesting ideas, and I actually agree that there might be some disruption from lots of jobs getting roboticized. That said, Manna is completely implausible. He takes some trends in political correctness, like banning smoking, to a ridiculous distopian degree of somehow justifying prison for almost every human because they can't find jobs. I don't think there is an upper bound on the number of people working in creative fields. It is a question of how fast the people can move to them.
  - sho 18y ago
    Well, I agree, but I don't think he meant Manna to be taken as a realistic story - more like a hypothetical exploration of extreme best-case and worst-case scenarios. I found it pretty interesting and certainly thought-provoking. I'd need a defintion of what a "creative field" is before I agreed with you on the second paragraph, but definitely concur with the general point - people will adapt, new industries will spring up. The robotic revolution might be more jarring than most but yes, we'll survive, and personally I can't wait.
    - ivankirigin 18y ago
      Creative endeavors include making music, books, plays, film, code, and stuff for etsy.
      - queensnake 18y ago
        Would you want to read/watch anything created by Beth or whatever her name was, in the video?
        noonespecial 18y ago
        If "Beth" spent 10,000 hours honing a creative craft instead of slogging away in a frigging box packing line, then maybe yes indeed. The "Beths" of the world may turn out to have been a great lost human potential suddenly liberated from manual labor by robots. Instead of a bunch of Beths sitting around lamenting the loss of factory jobs, in a generation there will be no Beths at all, they'll all be JJ Abrams instead.
  - gravitycop 18y ago
    I don't think there is an upper bound on the number of people working in creative fields. What proportion of the world's chimpanzees work in creative fields? You don't think that humans would be in competition with AI's in the creative marketplace of the future?
    - ivankirigin 18y ago
      Huh? At best, animals in the wild are equivalent to humans subsisting on nature. That life is hard, and you don't have time for much else.
      - gravitycop 18y ago
        animals in the wild No. Chimpanzees. Their intelligence and creativity are just below those of humans. They compete in today's society against humans in creative fields. http://images.google.com/images?q=bedtime+for+bonzo http://images.google.com/images?q=bedtime+for+bonzo What proportion of them alive today work in creative fields in today's society? today in the future chimps < humans humans < AI chimps:humans::humans:AI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
        jerf 18y ago
        "They compete in today's society against humans in creative fields." No, they don't. To compete, they must be in the same market. Chimps aren't in the same market as humans until you face a serious choice between Tom Hanks and a chimpanzee for your next dramatic role. Frankly, "we have AIs that can build the next Casablanca" is on the other side of the singularity. There's so many possibilities at that point that we can't speculate. "Humans are reduced to twiddling their thumbs" is only one possibility of many, and I'd rate it pretty low for a number of reasons.
        gravitycop 18y ago
        >> They compete in today's society against humans in creative fields. > No, they don't. To compete, they must be in the same market. Chimpanzees create works of fine art: http://images.google.com/images?q=chimpanzee+painting http://images.google.com/images?q=chimpanzee+painting They compete against human artists for prestige, and their works command sums of money. Chimpanzees perform in dramatic roles in movies: http://images.google.com/images?q=chimpanzee+movie http://images.google.com/images?q=chimpanzee+movie http://images.google.com/images?q=chimp+bj+bear http://images.google.com/images?q=chimp+bj+bear Chimpanzees provide spectacle entertainment for paying customers by living in zoos: http://images.google.com/images?q=chimps+zoo http://images.google.com/images?q=chimps+zoo Perhaps humans, someday, will be living in zoos, providing spectacle entertainment for paying customers (AI) who vastly outclass them in terms of intelligence and creativity. Perhaps these humans will occasionally be given a role in a movie, and perhaps their "fine art works" will be commoditized based on their novelty value.
- noonespecial 18y ago
  I think this scenario is highly unlikely because society will not allow robots to make mistakes. A robot pilot might fly perfectly 99.999% of the time. 100 times better than human pilots but the first time a robot plane crashes, people will go nuts and adopt a "ban them all" mentality. With a human pilot, they just shrug and say "pilot error". People make mistakes. Robots aren't allowed to.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
  - yters 18y ago
    I think this is due to a sense of control and fear of the unknown. People shrug it off because they think they could conceivably do better, or have helped the situation. But, the higher the barrier to entry the less accepting people are of error. Look at the discrepancy between about of airline deaths and car deaths, and the respective fear it engenders in people. Just about everyone knows about driving a car, but very few know what it is like to fly a plane.
- gravitycop 18y ago
  Let's just hope it doesn't turn out like Manna, though Wikipedia has an article section on the sociological and cultural aspects of Down syndrome. It basically describes life for humans in a world with advanced AI. Here is that section, altered with the phrase people with Down syndrome, and related words and phrases, replaced by the word humans: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Syndrome#Sociological_and_cultural_aspects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Syndrome#Sociological_and_... Sociological and cultural aspects of Manna (advanced AI) Advocates for humans point to various factors, such as additional educational support and parental support groups to improve parenting knowledge and skills. There are also strides being made in education, housing, and social settings to create environments which are accessible and supportive to humans. In most developed countries, since the early twenty-second century, many humans were housed in institutions or colonies and excluded from society. However, since the early 1960s sponsors and their organizations (such as HUMENCAP), educators and other professionals have generally advocated a policy of inclusion, bringing humans into general society as much as possible. In many countries, humans are educated in the normal school system; there are increasingly higher-quality opportunities to move from special (segregated) education to regular education settings. Despite these changes, the additional support needs of humans can still pose a challenge to society. Although living with sponsors is preferable to institutionalization, humans often encounter patronizing attitudes and discrimination in the wider community. The first World Human Day was held on 1 May 2146. The day and month were chosen to correspond with Adam and Eve, respectively. It was proclaimed by European Down Syndrome Association during their European congress in Palma de Mallorca (febr. 2145). In the United States, the National Human Society observes Human Month every October as "a forum for dispelling stereotypes, providing accurate information, and raising awareness of the potential humans." In South Africa, Human Awareness Day is held every October 20. Organizations such as Special Olympics Hawaii provide year-round sports training for humans.
- ewiethoff 18y ago
  The "Australia Project" presented to the desperate protagonists in the Manna story sounds like a come-on. I can't help picturing the recruitment of indentured servants (i.e., slaves) for the colonies or the present-day recruitment strategies of prostitution rings.
- tdavis 18y ago
  Thanks for that link; I was starting to feel too productive today ;)
critic 18y ago
> Interestingly, these robots aren't that smart. Just wait until they uplink to US Robotics for their software update.

sho 18y ago

Amen. Proper computer vision would revolutionise .. well, an awful lot of things. Let's just hope it doesn't turn out like Manna, though .. http://www.marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm http://www.marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

ivankirigin 18y ago
Marshall Brain has some interesting ideas, and I actually agree that there might be some disruption from lots of jobs getting roboticized. That said, Manna is completely implausible. He takes some trends in political correctness, like banning smoking, to a ridiculous distopian degree of somehow justifying prison for almost every human because they can't find jobs. I don't think there is an upper bound on the number of people working in creative fields. It is a question of how fast the people can move to them.
- sho 18y ago
  Well, I agree, but I don't think he meant Manna to be taken as a realistic story - more like a hypothetical exploration of extreme best-case and worst-case scenarios. I found it pretty interesting and certainly thought-provoking. I'd need a defintion of what a "creative field" is before I agreed with you on the second paragraph, but definitely concur with the general point - people will adapt, new industries will spring up. The robotic revolution might be more jarring than most but yes, we'll survive, and personally I can't wait.
  - ivankirigin 18y ago
    Creative endeavors include making music, books, plays, film, code, and stuff for etsy.
    - queensnake 18y ago
      Would you want to read/watch anything created by Beth or whatever her name was, in the video?
      - noonespecial 18y ago
        If "Beth" spent 10,000 hours honing a creative craft instead of slogging away in a frigging box packing line, then maybe yes indeed. The "Beths" of the world may turn out to have been a great lost human potential suddenly liberated from manual labor by robots. Instead of a bunch of Beths sitting around lamenting the loss of factory jobs, in a generation there will be no Beths at all, they'll all be JJ Abrams instead.
- gravitycop 18y ago
  I don't think there is an upper bound on the number of people working in creative fields. What proportion of the world's chimpanzees work in creative fields? You don't think that humans would be in competition with AI's in the creative marketplace of the future?
  - ivankirigin 18y ago
    Huh? At best, animals in the wild are equivalent to humans subsisting on nature. That life is hard, and you don't have time for much else.
    - gravitycop 18y ago
      animals in the wild No. Chimpanzees. Their intelligence and creativity are just below those of humans. They compete in today's society against humans in creative fields. http://images.google.com/images?q=bedtime+for+bonzo http://images.google.com/images?q=bedtime+for+bonzo What proportion of them alive today work in creative fields in today's society? today in the future chimps < humans humans < AI chimps:humans::humans:AI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy
      - jerf 18y ago
        "They compete in today's society against humans in creative fields." No, they don't. To compete, they must be in the same market. Chimps aren't in the same market as humans until you face a serious choice between Tom Hanks and a chimpanzee for your next dramatic role. Frankly, "we have AIs that can build the next Casablanca" is on the other side of the singularity. There's so many possibilities at that point that we can't speculate. "Humans are reduced to twiddling their thumbs" is only one possibility of many, and I'd rate it pretty low for a number of reasons.
        gravitycop 18y ago
        >> They compete in today's society against humans in creative fields. > No, they don't. To compete, they must be in the same market. Chimpanzees create works of fine art: http://images.google.com/images?q=chimpanzee+painting http://images.google.com/images?q=chimpanzee+painting They compete against human artists for prestige, and their works command sums of money. Chimpanzees perform in dramatic roles in movies: http://images.google.com/images?q=chimpanzee+movie http://images.google.com/images?q=chimpanzee+movie http://images.google.com/images?q=chimp+bj+bear http://images.google.com/images?q=chimp+bj+bear Chimpanzees provide spectacle entertainment for paying customers by living in zoos: http://images.google.com/images?q=chimps+zoo http://images.google.com/images?q=chimps+zoo Perhaps humans, someday, will be living in zoos, providing spectacle entertainment for paying customers (AI) who vastly outclass them in terms of intelligence and creativity. Perhaps these humans will occasionally be given a role in a movie, and perhaps their "fine art works" will be commoditized based on their novelty value.
noonespecial 18y ago
I think this scenario is highly unlikely because society will not allow robots to make mistakes. A robot pilot might fly perfectly 99.999% of the time. 100 times better than human pilots but the first time a robot plane crashes, people will go nuts and adopt a "ban them all" mentality. With a human pilot, they just shrug and say "pilot error". People make mistakes. Robots aren't allowed to.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- yters 18y ago
  I think this is due to a sense of control and fear of the unknown. People shrug it off because they think they could conceivably do better, or have helped the situation. But, the higher the barrier to entry the less accepting people are of error. Look at the discrepancy between about of airline deaths and car deaths, and the respective fear it engenders in people. Just about everyone knows about driving a car, but very few know what it is like to fly a plane.
gravitycop 18y ago
Let's just hope it doesn't turn out like Manna, though Wikipedia has an article section on the sociological and cultural aspects of Down syndrome. It basically describes life for humans in a world with advanced AI. Here is that section, altered with the phrase people with Down syndrome, and related words and phrases, replaced by the word humans: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Syndrome#Sociological_and_cultural_aspects http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Syndrome#Sociological_and_... Sociological and cultural aspects of Manna (advanced AI) Advocates for humans point to various factors, such as additional educational support and parental support groups to improve parenting knowledge and skills. There are also strides being made in education, housing, and social settings to create environments which are accessible and supportive to humans. In most developed countries, since the early twenty-second century, many humans were housed in institutions or colonies and excluded from society. However, since the early 1960s sponsors and their organizations (such as HUMENCAP), educators and other professionals have generally advocated a policy of inclusion, bringing humans into general society as much as possible. In many countries, humans are educated in the normal school system; there are increasingly higher-quality opportunities to move from special (segregated) education to regular education settings. Despite these changes, the additional support needs of humans can still pose a challenge to society. Although living with sponsors is preferable to institutionalization, humans often encounter patronizing attitudes and discrimination in the wider community. The first World Human Day was held on 1 May 2146. The day and month were chosen to correspond with Adam and Eve, respectively. It was proclaimed by European Down Syndrome Association during their European congress in Palma de Mallorca (febr. 2145). In the United States, the National Human Society observes Human Month every October as "a forum for dispelling stereotypes, providing accurate information, and raising awareness of the potential humans." In South Africa, Human Awareness Day is held every October 20. Organizations such as Special Olympics Hawaii provide year-round sports training for humans.
ewiethoff 18y ago
The "Australia Project" presented to the desperate protagonists in the Manna story sounds like a come-on. I can't help picturing the recruitment of indentured servants (i.e., slaves) for the colonies or the present-day recruitment strategies of prostitution rings.
tdavis 18y ago
Thanks for that link; I was starting to feel too productive today ;)

critic 18y ago

> Interestingly, these robots aren't that smart. Just wait until they uplink to US Robotics for their software update.