4 ms·

I thought I had a decent handle on patent law, but maybe I'm missing something here. Yes, the patent won't be valid for Canada, but you can't import a product

I thought I had a decent handle on patent law, but maybe I'm missing something here. Yes, the patent won't be valid for Canada, but you can't import a product into the US which would infringe on a US patent. So, though there may be a small amount that would slip through the cracks, it isn't as if anyone in the US can now manufacture Semaglutide and distribute it. Canada is such a small market, that many companies don't bother. Though, for the cost, it seems ridiculous a company as big as Novo didn't pay the $500...that may even have been in Canadian dollars. :)

rootusrootus 1y ago
As Derek mentions, Canada is the second largest market. There may be a lot coming into the US already, legal or not.
maximus_01 1y ago
Not that small. High income and roughly the same population as California, which isn't too small for companies to bother selling into. Ozempic did about US$2bn of revenue in 2024 in Canada.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
killingtime74 1y ago
Don't worry about the law think about the practical impact. It's now completely legal to ignore the patent in Canada so the price in Canada will plummet. Canadian pharmacies can legally sell it and Americans (and all other foreigners for that matter) traveling there can legally buy it. Unlike the criminal law, Novo nordisk would have to go after every single person individually and make the case that they are infringing the American patent. This is all without the help of the police or customs, as a private civil matter. Obviously this would be uneconomic for Novo Nordisk. You can't search anyone as you don't have any warrants, as it's not a crime and then even if you could, you need to prove that the drugs they have on them were purchased in Canada. Foreigners who currently pay a huge amount of money would only have to make one trip to Canada in however long period it takes for the drugs to expire. I know I would certainly make a day trip if I was using this drug. Intellectual property law firms offer services to renew and watch registrations like this worldwide and it would have been very simple to have a contract with one of them.
- tavavex 1y ago
  > Canadian pharmacies can legally sell it and Americans (and all other foreigners for that matter) traveling there can legally buy it. Well, about that... Aren't all variants of medications like these prescription-only? And in Canada you can't fill a foreign prescription without having a local doctor sign off on it, as far as I know.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > you can't fill a foreign prescription without having a local doctor sign off on it This is how medical tourism typically works.
    - sbrother 1y ago
      Is that process that can happen online? Or does it require the patient being physically present in Canada?
      - barbazoo 1y ago
        Can be done virtually but you might have to use a VPN or even lie about your place of residence.
  - petesergeant 1y ago
    Plenty of countries where having a doctor in the pharmacy is common practice. Buy some retail space in YYZ and you're set...
  - Marsymars 1y ago
    Depends on province. From my best reading, pharmacists in Alberta with prescribing authority can directly prescribe all schedule 1 drugs themselves.
- labcomputer 1y ago
  > Unlike the criminal law, Novo nordisk would have to go after every single person individually and make the case that they are infringing the American patent. This is all without the help of the police or customs, as a private civil matter. I don't think that's quite right. One of the things that CBP does is inspect incoming shipments, and confiscate IP-infringing things. Think about the recent Apple Watch SpO2 sensor patent shenanigans: The threat was to have CBP confiscate any infringing devices at the port of entry. I also remember that multimeters infringing on Fluke's ~~design patent~~ trademark have been blocked at the port of entry: https://hackaday.com/2014/03/19/multimeters-without-a-country-flukes-broad-trademark-bans-yellow-multimeter-imports/ https://hackaday.com/2014/03/19/multimeters-without-a-countr...
digianarchist 1y ago
$450 CAD I believe. US consumers would have to travel to Canada for injections which isn't practical unless you live on a border town. It's unlikely to meet the bar for personal importation as you say. That probably won't stop people from trying. There's already a huge market for illegal compounds and GPL-1 drugs are available alongside the usual testosterone and other steroids.
- rootusrootus 1y ago
  If you have a prescription from a provider in Canada, the limit for personal use is 90 days. As long as it is a legal drug in the US -- which I don't think necessarily includes that it's patented here, just that it's approved by the FDA. > There's already a huge market for illegal compounds and GPL-1 drugs are available alongside the usual testosterone and other steroids. The peptide and oils markets are both big, but largely separate -- the peptides folks don't seem to want to be associated with oils. Within peptides, GLP1s definitely dominate, though the other options are pretty popular. In my experience it seems like GLP1s are kind of a "gateway peptide" -- a lot of folks start with a GLP1 on the gray market, and then start to branch out and try the other options available.
  - digianarchist 1y ago
    You're probably right. I scanned the FDA website and wasn't sure how easy it would be to meet the requirements for personal medicine importation [0]. As a Canadian national in the US I wouldn't even attempt doing this in the current political climate. [0] https://www.fda.gov/industry/import-basics/personal-importation https://www.fda.gov/industry/import-basics/personal-importat...
  - dawnerd 1y ago
    Flights to Canada can be pretty cheap too. Less than the cost of one month so if you flew out every 90 days you’d still come out ahead. Practically not enough people will do this of course. Would be great for people in the border towns though.
    - 1y ago
Spooky23 1y ago
We don't have laws anymore. Just pay off POTUS so he can declare cheap "fat shots" and let Kushner or Barron own the importer, and you're good.
SecretDreams 1y ago
Canada's one of the bigger markets for this product. That aside, think of the percentage of Americans that live driving distance of a Canadian border - it's easy to envision from meaningful lost sales just from normal Americans who go to Canada to shop on the weekend.
Marsymars 1y ago
> So, though there may be a small amount that would slip through the cracks Probably depends on enforcement, price delta, and various other variables. e.g. something like a quarter of smartphones sold in Brazil are smuggled in, more than a small amount slipping through the cracks.
aardvarkr 1y ago
Medical tourism is a huge industry. A 3 month supply costs more than $3k in the USA. A flight to Canada costs $300 and takes a few hours of your time. I’d definitely do it if I was taking the drug.
kelnos 1y ago
> Yes, the patent won't be valid for Canada, but you can't import a product into the US which would infringe on a US patent. Technically true, but in practice you can often get it across the border in personal-dose-level quantities without getting caught.

rootusrootus 1y ago

As Derek mentions, Canada is the second largest market. There may be a lot coming into the US already, legal or not.

maximus_01 1y ago

Not that small. High income and roughly the same population as California, which isn't too small for companies to bother selling into. Ozempic did about US$2bn of revenue in 2024 in Canada.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

killingtime74 1y ago

Don't worry about the law think about the practical impact. It's now completely legal to ignore the patent in Canada so the price in Canada will plummet. Canadian pharmacies can legally sell it and Americans (and all other foreigners for that matter) traveling there can legally buy it. Unlike the criminal law, Novo nordisk would have to go after every single person individually and make the case that they are infringing the American patent. This is all without the help of the police or customs, as a private civil matter. Obviously this would be uneconomic for Novo Nordisk. You can't search anyone as you don't have any warrants, as it's not a crime and then even if you could, you need to prove that the drugs they have on them were purchased in Canada. Foreigners who currently pay a huge amount of money would only have to make one trip to Canada in however long period it takes for the drugs to expire. I know I would certainly make a day trip if I was using this drug. Intellectual property law firms offer services to renew and watch registrations like this worldwide and it would have been very simple to have a contract with one of them.

tavavex 1y ago
> Canadian pharmacies can legally sell it and Americans (and all other foreigners for that matter) traveling there can legally buy it. Well, about that... Aren't all variants of medications like these prescription-only? And in Canada you can't fill a foreign prescription without having a local doctor sign off on it, as far as I know.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > you can't fill a foreign prescription without having a local doctor sign off on it This is how medical tourism typically works.
  - sbrother 1y ago
    Is that process that can happen online? Or does it require the patient being physically present in Canada?
    - barbazoo 1y ago
      Can be done virtually but you might have to use a VPN or even lie about your place of residence.
- petesergeant 1y ago
  Plenty of countries where having a doctor in the pharmacy is common practice. Buy some retail space in YYZ and you're set...
- Marsymars 1y ago
  Depends on province. From my best reading, pharmacists in Alberta with prescribing authority can directly prescribe all schedule 1 drugs themselves.
labcomputer 1y ago
> Unlike the criminal law, Novo nordisk would have to go after every single person individually and make the case that they are infringing the American patent. This is all without the help of the police or customs, as a private civil matter. I don't think that's quite right. One of the things that CBP does is inspect incoming shipments, and confiscate IP-infringing things. Think about the recent Apple Watch SpO2 sensor patent shenanigans: The threat was to have CBP confiscate any infringing devices at the port of entry. I also remember that multimeters infringing on Fluke's ~~design patent~~ trademark have been blocked at the port of entry: https://hackaday.com/2014/03/19/multimeters-without-a-country-flukes-broad-trademark-bans-yellow-multimeter-imports/ https://hackaday.com/2014/03/19/multimeters-without-a-countr...

digianarchist 1y ago

$450 CAD I believe. US consumers would have to travel to Canada for injections which isn't practical unless you live on a border town. It's unlikely to meet the bar for personal importation as you say. That probably won't stop people from trying. There's already a huge market for illegal compounds and GPL-1 drugs are available alongside the usual testosterone and other steroids.

rootusrootus 1y ago
If you have a prescription from a provider in Canada, the limit for personal use is 90 days. As long as it is a legal drug in the US -- which I don't think necessarily includes that it's patented here, just that it's approved by the FDA. > There's already a huge market for illegal compounds and GPL-1 drugs are available alongside the usual testosterone and other steroids. The peptide and oils markets are both big, but largely separate -- the peptides folks don't seem to want to be associated with oils. Within peptides, GLP1s definitely dominate, though the other options are pretty popular. In my experience it seems like GLP1s are kind of a "gateway peptide" -- a lot of folks start with a GLP1 on the gray market, and then start to branch out and try the other options available.
- digianarchist 1y ago
  You're probably right. I scanned the FDA website and wasn't sure how easy it would be to meet the requirements for personal medicine importation [0]. As a Canadian national in the US I wouldn't even attempt doing this in the current political climate. [0] https://www.fda.gov/industry/import-basics/personal-importation https://www.fda.gov/industry/import-basics/personal-importat...
- dawnerd 1y ago
  Flights to Canada can be pretty cheap too. Less than the cost of one month so if you flew out every 90 days you’d still come out ahead. Practically not enough people will do this of course. Would be great for people in the border towns though.
  - 1y ago

Spooky23 1y ago

We don't have laws anymore. Just pay off POTUS so he can declare cheap "fat shots" and let Kushner or Barron own the importer, and you're good.

SecretDreams 1y ago

Canada's one of the bigger markets for this product. That aside, think of the percentage of Americans that live driving distance of a Canadian border - it's easy to envision from meaningful lost sales just from normal Americans who go to Canada to shop on the weekend.

Marsymars 1y ago

> So, though there may be a small amount that would slip through the cracks Probably depends on enforcement, price delta, and various other variables. e.g. something like a quarter of smartphones sold in Brazil are smuggled in, more than a small amount slipping through the cracks.

aardvarkr 1y ago

Medical tourism is a huge industry. A 3 month supply costs more than $3k in the USA. A flight to Canada costs $300 and takes a few hours of your time. I’d definitely do it if I was taking the drug.

kelnos 1y ago

> Yes, the patent won't be valid for Canada, but you can't import a product into the US which would infringe on a US patent. Technically true, but in practice you can often get it across the border in personal-dose-level quantities without getting caught.