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This is such a worthless and pedantic hill to die on, and one that seems to reveal a profound lack of empathy. Not everyone comes from the same background, not

This is such a worthless and pedantic hill to die on, and one that seems to reveal a profound lack of empathy. Not everyone comes from the same background, not everyone had a good start free from abuse, and some 16 year olds are far more vulnerable legally, societally, and mentally than even their slightly older peers. With the benefit of being quite a bit older I’m increasingly struck by just how young and frankly childlike teens are. The age of consent isn’t perfect, it’s a compromise and an exercise in drawing lines, but that doesn’t make it worthless or indicate that you should “well actually” people who are abusing them. Why not read Virginia Giuffre’s book about her experiences for more insight into something you should frankly listen and learn about a lot more before you lecture.

lukan 1y ago
I might have underestimated the trigger potential here, but can you state, where I did "lecture" anything or anyone here? The original claim was, Ginsberg went after "young male children". Sounds very, very bad. Wikipedia said so far the youngest was 16. Still bad, but not as bad in my opinion. So, to form my opinion after the initial accusation I requested more information. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not all the same to me.
- EA-3167 1y ago
  You might have underestimated the degree to which defending child abusers might upset people? That strikes me as remarkable, given that it’s arguably the most famously flammable topic short of intrareligious conflict.
  - lukan 1y ago
    "You might have underestimated the degree to which defending child abusers might upset people?" I underestimated how quickly people even here will engage in dishonest tactics like this. Anyone requesting fair trial for the witch is automatically a witch itself that should be burned as well. That is not a climate where you can find out truth, but activly preventing it through invoking fear. The fact that Ginsberg was involved with NAMBLA is creepy enough for me, to not wanting to engage with his works btw. and I did not so much defended him, but the concept that 16 year olds are not small children anymore. Still children, yes, but not "young children". There are 16 year olds who started a family already. Not ideal, sure, but putting all those in the same bucket as 8 year olds?
- Forgeties79 1y ago
  >still bad Then what are we debating? Should we debate if 3 murders is as bad as 5 murders while we’re at it? Or if stabbing someone to death is better/worse than shooting someone to death? You’re treating this like some cold academic exercise or game of “what if” when it is a very real thing that happens to people literally every day. We are talking about a person who actually did this - an act that you yourself consider “bad.”
  - lukan 1y ago
    "Then what are we debating?" Missunderstandings it seems. My goal was to find out what exactly he did. "We are talking about a person who actually did this" Because I still don't know what he did exactly. To me approaching a 16 year old is in a very different ballpark than approaching 8 year olds, but if it is the same to you, we should indeed stop right here.
    - Forgeties79 1y ago
      You are really going to regret having this comment history one day I guarantee it. As for your question in the other comment chain: Whitewashing/downplaying =/= justifying. We didn’t say you “justified” it. Though neither is a great look. Have a good one dude. I’ve stomached all I can of this thread.
      - lukan 1y ago
        "We didn’t say you “justified” it." "Bruh you're justifying statutory rape" ?? Also .. "You are really going to regret having this comment history one day I guarantee it." .. was that a threat? In case people like you take the power? Anyway, I do recommend to reread what I wrote in a non engaged state of mind one day.
        Forgeties79 1y ago
        >"Bruh you're justifying statutory rape" Different person in a different comment chain. Not me or the other person on this one.

lukan 1y ago

I might have underestimated the trigger potential here, but can you state, where I did "lecture" anything or anyone here? The original claim was, Ginsberg went after "young male children". Sounds very, very bad. Wikipedia said so far the youngest was 16. Still bad, but not as bad in my opinion. So, to form my opinion after the initial accusation I requested more information. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not all the same to me.

EA-3167 1y ago
You might have underestimated the degree to which defending child abusers might upset people? That strikes me as remarkable, given that it’s arguably the most famously flammable topic short of intrareligious conflict.
- lukan 1y ago
  "You might have underestimated the degree to which defending child abusers might upset people?" I underestimated how quickly people even here will engage in dishonest tactics like this. Anyone requesting fair trial for the witch is automatically a witch itself that should be burned as well. That is not a climate where you can find out truth, but activly preventing it through invoking fear. The fact that Ginsberg was involved with NAMBLA is creepy enough for me, to not wanting to engage with his works btw. and I did not so much defended him, but the concept that 16 year olds are not small children anymore. Still children, yes, but not "young children". There are 16 year olds who started a family already. Not ideal, sure, but putting all those in the same bucket as 8 year olds?
Forgeties79 1y ago
>still bad Then what are we debating? Should we debate if 3 murders is as bad as 5 murders while we’re at it? Or if stabbing someone to death is better/worse than shooting someone to death? You’re treating this like some cold academic exercise or game of “what if” when it is a very real thing that happens to people literally every day. We are talking about a person who actually did this - an act that you yourself consider “bad.”
- lukan 1y ago
  "Then what are we debating?" Missunderstandings it seems. My goal was to find out what exactly he did. "We are talking about a person who actually did this" Because I still don't know what he did exactly. To me approaching a 16 year old is in a very different ballpark than approaching 8 year olds, but if it is the same to you, we should indeed stop right here.
  - Forgeties79 1y ago
    You are really going to regret having this comment history one day I guarantee it. As for your question in the other comment chain: Whitewashing/downplaying =/= justifying. We didn’t say you “justified” it. Though neither is a great look. Have a good one dude. I’ve stomached all I can of this thread.
    - lukan 1y ago
      "We didn’t say you “justified” it." "Bruh you're justifying statutory rape" ?? Also .. "You are really going to regret having this comment history one day I guarantee it." .. was that a threat? In case people like you take the power? Anyway, I do recommend to reread what I wrote in a non engaged state of mind one day.
      - Forgeties79 1y ago
        >"Bruh you're justifying statutory rape" Different person in a different comment chain. Not me or the other person on this one.