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Since after 3 years you're beyond the break-even point due to energy use, the old refrigerator should be disposed of rather than given away. By keeping it in s

Since after 3 years you're beyond the break-even point due to energy use, the old refrigerator should be disposed of rather than given away. By keeping it in service, it's making somebody poorer. Especially since the person receiving the free 30 year old power hungry refrigerator and keeping it for a decade is the least likely to afford a replacement. Somebody already disadvantaged will eventually be stuck with structurally higher bills and find it harder to save due to this. Those that's not your problem it's more a government policy problem.

avmich 1y ago
It would be interesting to hear your comparison to counterarguments to this. Can you explain why these arguments are more important?
emtel 1y ago
Poor people can make their own decisions about whether to use an old fridge or not. They know much more about their own situation than you do. You are not well situated to make these sorts of decisions for them.
- Johnny555 1y ago
  But do they? Does the person taking on that broken refrigerator know that it has a flaw that makes it consume so much electricity that in 3 years the power use alone would cost more than buying a brand new refrigerator? (ok, in this case they gave it to someone that needs a temporary 'fridge during renovations, so it's kind of a moot point, they aren't just giving it to "poor people")
  - b112 1y ago
    Probably not any better than the last two LG fridges which both broke due to compressor issues, causing me to lose $1k of food each time. In one case, during the high summer, I didn't notice one was slowly getting warmer. I had constant bowel problems, because I was eating rotten mayonnaise. This was compounded by the fact that I bought fancy spicy mayonnaise, which I'd never tasted before, which masked the rotten flavour. So -- my lessons learned, never by LG horrible fridges again, and keep an analog thermometer, which I bought for $5, in the fridge. (General FYI, LG has had more than one class action law suit because of their compressors, and, they even make it very hard to obtain replacements. Evil bastards.) My point is, you should take care with any fridge, new or old. (edit: some clarity on mayo)
    - RedShift1 1y ago
      You need to smell your food before you eat it. Trust your senses.
      - b112 1y ago
        Please. I've definitely smelled off food, and of course don't eat it. The mayo in question was some weird spicy stuff, and it didn't smell or taste bad. Note: https://www.sciencealert.com/sniff-tests-wont-save-you-from-food-poisoning-an-expert-explains-why https://www.sciencealert.com/sniff-tests-wont-save-you-from-... You cannot smell or taste all forms of bad food. At all.
    - kasabali 1y ago
      > So -- my lessons learned, never by LG horrible fridges again You'd need to be careful because many other manufacturers are using LG made compressors in their products.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - cogman10 1y ago
        LG and Samsung are the two that I think everyone should stay away from for major appliances. GE and it's spinoff brands tend to do better.
    - Marsymars 1y ago
      I plan on putting some LoRaWAN temp sensors in my fridges/freezers to alert me if the temp goes out of spec for very long. (As soon as YoLink has their Local Hub available and functioning with Home Assistant.)
      - b112 1y ago
        I have remote gauges with alarms in my freezers, but I'm in my fridge every day, and nothing beats a simple analog gauge. In the freezers I also employ either the "freeze some ice cubes and put them in a baggy" or "freeze a small jar and put a coin on top" methods. If you see the ice cubes have melted and refroze, then trouble. If the coin is not on the top of the jar -- same thing. Fail proof methods.
  - analog31 1y ago
    You can borrow a watt meter at my local public library. I'm not saying the average person would have the knowledge to think of doing this, but it's not out of reach.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- bloomingeek 1y ago
  There's an old expression that I actually lived out: "Poor people have poor ways." When I was living well below the poverty level, I used whatever resource that was available as long as it was legal. I was given a chest type freezer that was made somewhere in the early 60's, but was in good working order, since it was owned by a person in the HVAC field. It wasn't very efficient, but I needed the freezer space. (Since we didn't have air conditioning, I could afford the electric usage.) Most poor people make decisions based on whatever works, not if it's the best option, because of the lack of money.
  - throwaway173738 1y ago
    When you have no options whatever works is the best choice.
Manfred 1y ago
From the article: > as a stopgap until they get further with renovation work I assume they know what they are getting into.
Theodores 1y ago
As another person has noted, this wasn't quite the scenario - they had renovations, but you know that now. I had to renovate a kitchen a while ago and I got into the habit of living without a fridge or a freezer. It came as a surprise that this was possible, and the article is interesting because I now know how much money is saved. I can compare this to food wasted due to a lack of refrigeration, and, I am still seeing the advantages of no fridge. Such heresy! It depends on what you eat, but I don't have time for most things that need to go in the fridge. If it isn't in the fridge at the supermarket then it doesn't need to be in the fridge at home is the general rule. Oddly I have lower food waste with no fridge, but there are annoyances such as not being able to buy a big bag of (say) carrots, and having to resupply twice a week. On the whole though, my food is a lot fresher than when I had a fridge, plus I have upped my nutrition game to not have this food morgue of things that 'want to kill me'. I joke, but there were a lot of ready meals, sticky puddings and much else that might as well been 'raw trans fats'. I went from this to a jute bag, which seems to keep most vegetables fresh enough for long enough. What is also interesting about fridges is how quickly they turn into some cave of mold even if they are kept nice and clean. Turn that electricity off, take everything out, and, unless you keep the door open, some true horrors will be found in there a week later. In the article this was not a like for like efficiency test by any stretch of the imagination. Over time it is the door seal that goes and, if that isn't tight then it will just be sucking moisture out of the air to make a huge ice block, hence compressor on the whole time. The next problem is that some fridges have vents with fans in them, sometimes forward facing at the base. These get to collect lots of dust, hair and other debris, making them ineffective. Despite these test methodology issues, in the real world people will be replacing an old fridge that has a dodgy seal with a new fridge that works as the manufacturer intended. Regarding your point of the poor, do you have any idea how many people in the UK do not have a fridge, or access to one? Allegedly it is in the millions, which I find hard to believe, but have not dismissed out of hand. There are so many people living in sub-standard rented accommodation in a shoebox sized 'studio flat' (or worse). Proper housing is required before these people can get a fridge. The UK is allegedly a first world country, but with huge inequalities when it comes to property and income. I suspect that in much of the world not having a fridge is no big deal, if you are living off the land rather than processed foods and processed animal products then why would no fridge be hardship? It is amazing how many assumptions there are regarding fridges, the need for them and whether life is 'disadvantaged' without one. Until relatively recent times nobody had fridges yet we somehow survived, albeit with some mortality issues.

avmich 1y ago

It would be interesting to hear your comparison to counterarguments to this. Can you explain why these arguments are more important?

emtel 1y ago

Poor people can make their own decisions about whether to use an old fridge or not. They know much more about their own situation than you do. You are not well situated to make these sorts of decisions for them.

Johnny555 1y ago
But do they? Does the person taking on that broken refrigerator know that it has a flaw that makes it consume so much electricity that in 3 years the power use alone would cost more than buying a brand new refrigerator? (ok, in this case they gave it to someone that needs a temporary 'fridge during renovations, so it's kind of a moot point, they aren't just giving it to "poor people")
- b112 1y ago
  Probably not any better than the last two LG fridges which both broke due to compressor issues, causing me to lose $1k of food each time. In one case, during the high summer, I didn't notice one was slowly getting warmer. I had constant bowel problems, because I was eating rotten mayonnaise. This was compounded by the fact that I bought fancy spicy mayonnaise, which I'd never tasted before, which masked the rotten flavour. So -- my lessons learned, never by LG horrible fridges again, and keep an analog thermometer, which I bought for $5, in the fridge. (General FYI, LG has had more than one class action law suit because of their compressors, and, they even make it very hard to obtain replacements. Evil bastards.) My point is, you should take care with any fridge, new or old. (edit: some clarity on mayo)
  - RedShift1 1y ago
    You need to smell your food before you eat it. Trust your senses.
    - b112 1y ago
      Please. I've definitely smelled off food, and of course don't eat it. The mayo in question was some weird spicy stuff, and it didn't smell or taste bad. Note: https://www.sciencealert.com/sniff-tests-wont-save-you-from-food-poisoning-an-expert-explains-why https://www.sciencealert.com/sniff-tests-wont-save-you-from-... You cannot smell or taste all forms of bad food. At all.
  - kasabali 1y ago
    > So -- my lessons learned, never by LG horrible fridges again You'd need to be careful because many other manufacturers are using LG made compressors in their products.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - cogman10 1y ago
      LG and Samsung are the two that I think everyone should stay away from for major appliances. GE and it's spinoff brands tend to do better.
  - Marsymars 1y ago
    I plan on putting some LoRaWAN temp sensors in my fridges/freezers to alert me if the temp goes out of spec for very long. (As soon as YoLink has their Local Hub available and functioning with Home Assistant.)
    - b112 1y ago
      I have remote gauges with alarms in my freezers, but I'm in my fridge every day, and nothing beats a simple analog gauge. In the freezers I also employ either the "freeze some ice cubes and put them in a baggy" or "freeze a small jar and put a coin on top" methods. If you see the ice cubes have melted and refroze, then trouble. If the coin is not on the top of the jar -- same thing. Fail proof methods.
- analog31 1y ago
  You can borrow a watt meter at my local public library. I'm not saying the average person would have the knowledge to think of doing this, but it's not out of reach.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
bloomingeek 1y ago
There's an old expression that I actually lived out: "Poor people have poor ways." When I was living well below the poverty level, I used whatever resource that was available as long as it was legal. I was given a chest type freezer that was made somewhere in the early 60's, but was in good working order, since it was owned by a person in the HVAC field. It wasn't very efficient, but I needed the freezer space. (Since we didn't have air conditioning, I could afford the electric usage.) Most poor people make decisions based on whatever works, not if it's the best option, because of the lack of money.
- throwaway173738 1y ago
  When you have no options whatever works is the best choice.

Manfred 1y ago

From the article: > as a stopgap until they get further with renovation work I assume they know what they are getting into.

Theodores 1y ago

As another person has noted, this wasn't quite the scenario - they had renovations, but you know that now. I had to renovate a kitchen a while ago and I got into the habit of living without a fridge or a freezer. It came as a surprise that this was possible, and the article is interesting because I now know how much money is saved. I can compare this to food wasted due to a lack of refrigeration, and, I am still seeing the advantages of no fridge. Such heresy! It depends on what you eat, but I don't have time for most things that need to go in the fridge. If it isn't in the fridge at the supermarket then it doesn't need to be in the fridge at home is the general rule. Oddly I have lower food waste with no fridge, but there are annoyances such as not being able to buy a big bag of (say) carrots, and having to resupply twice a week. On the whole though, my food is a lot fresher than when I had a fridge, plus I have upped my nutrition game to not have this food morgue of things that 'want to kill me'. I joke, but there were a lot of ready meals, sticky puddings and much else that might as well been 'raw trans fats'. I went from this to a jute bag, which seems to keep most vegetables fresh enough for long enough. What is also interesting about fridges is how quickly they turn into some cave of mold even if they are kept nice and clean. Turn that electricity off, take everything out, and, unless you keep the door open, some true horrors will be found in there a week later. In the article this was not a like for like efficiency test by any stretch of the imagination. Over time it is the door seal that goes and, if that isn't tight then it will just be sucking moisture out of the air to make a huge ice block, hence compressor on the whole time. The next problem is that some fridges have vents with fans in them, sometimes forward facing at the base. These get to collect lots of dust, hair and other debris, making them ineffective. Despite these test methodology issues, in the real world people will be replacing an old fridge that has a dodgy seal with a new fridge that works as the manufacturer intended. Regarding your point of the poor, do you have any idea how many people in the UK do not have a fridge, or access to one? Allegedly it is in the millions, which I find hard to believe, but have not dismissed out of hand. There are so many people living in sub-standard rented accommodation in a shoebox sized 'studio flat' (or worse). Proper housing is required before these people can get a fridge. The UK is allegedly a first world country, but with huge inequalities when it comes to property and income. I suspect that in much of the world not having a fridge is no big deal, if you are living off the land rather than processed foods and processed animal products then why would no fridge be hardship? It is amazing how many assumptions there are regarding fridges, the need for them and whether life is 'disadvantaged' without one. Until relatively recent times nobody had fridges yet we somehow survived, albeit with some mortality issues.