4 ms·

They may not be paying taxes. When I worked with this in other states, most of time, it's commercial property that property owner LLC just walked away from beca

They may not be paying taxes. When I worked with this in other states, most of time, it's commercial property that property owner LLC just walked away from because it's worthless. LLC exists on paper owning the land but has no money/assets besides the land so nothing for government to take. Bills just go into shredder and arrears continuing piling up. County does not want to seize the land because they know they can't get tax amount owed and would be stuck with worthless property it has to maintain. Probably need some form of tax amnesty system where counties can seize these properties, sell them off for any amount and wipe tax bill clean. However, that's process would be ripe for corruption which thinking about TX, I'm surprised they haven't allowed that.

njovin 1y ago
Somebody needs to compile a database of these and let people start actually taking advantage of the adverse possession laws.
- singleshot_ 1y ago
  Varies state to state, as usual, but 'round here: The taxing authority (city or county, generally) maintains a list of all the property in tax arrears. Once a year, there is an auction where they go around the room and each bidder can bid a rate for each property; the lowest rate wins a coupon that entitles the bearer to collect the tax plus the rate from the property owner, but requires the bearer to pay the base tax to the taxing authority. If a few years go by without the property owner retiring the debt, the holder can send a notice with some time requirements and after that, they can sue for the title and then they own the property. Usually the owner pays at the last moment but then they owe attorney's fees. Adverse possession is completely different and would require living in the tax-delinquent property for several years.
  - stackskipton 1y ago
    Whole problem is likely the value of the land is less than taxes owed. So any system where county is HAS to get the taxes owed means no one will touch the property.
    - singleshot_ 1y ago
      Thais “whole problem” is precisely what the existing system solves. I bid a future obligation to pay the tax only without the obligation to buy the land. At the end of the year, the county gets the whole tax payment from me. It’s tempting to talk about “the whole problem” but if you don’t know how the system works it can be hard to see the forest for the trees.
      - singleshot_ 1y ago
        Also I’ve never encountered a situation where the taxes past due exceeded the value of the land. The reason why is that long before this happens, someone already bought the tax debt, waited the statutory period, noticed the delinquent taxpayer, and filed for a quitclaim to transfer the land.
toast0 1y ago
> Probably need some form of tax amnesty system where counties can seize these properties, sell them off for any amount and wipe tax bill clean. However, that's process would be ripe for corruption which thinking about TX, I'm surprised they haven't allowed that. In Washington state, tax foreclosure has a minimum bid of the taxes due and if there is no bid, the county takes title. Then there are procedures to sell those 'tax title' properties, my county says typically the minimum price is 80% of assessed value ... which would typically be more than the tax debt, so maybe better to participate in the tax foreclosure auction. I don't know that the county has a duty to maintain tax title lands. Vacant land is probably going to get emergency maintenance by a government agency of last resort anyway.
- jdeibele 1y ago
  There might not be a duty but I would say it's good policy. Tall grass is a fire risk and often a place to dump things. Also a source of weeds that spread to neighboring properties.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Worse than vacant land will be land with abandoned structures, which would need to be demolished at someone's expense. Especially industrial sites where there may be hazardous waste, underground tanks, etc. present as well.
  - bobthepanda 1y ago
    Right but there's not much of a difference between the government taking title and having to do it, and the government suing somebody who won't do it and then probably having to do it anyways. Most Rust Belt cities had to do something like this because it turns out that just letting derelict property go resulted in neighborhoods death spiraling.
    - SoftTalker 1y ago
      Yep. We should probably have industrial developers pay into some kind of fund that is then available to pay for cleanup if the site is abandoned. Basically insurance against a bankrupt owner leaving a mess for the public to deal with. Instead we often give them tax abatements and other incentives with little recourse if they don’t deliver the promised economic growth and jobs.
xbmcuser 1y ago
Lol you forget the llc are mostly owned by these politicians and their donors why would they do something that hurts themselves.

njovin 1y ago

Somebody needs to compile a database of these and let people start actually taking advantage of the adverse possession laws.

singleshot_ 1y ago
Varies state to state, as usual, but 'round here: The taxing authority (city or county, generally) maintains a list of all the property in tax arrears. Once a year, there is an auction where they go around the room and each bidder can bid a rate for each property; the lowest rate wins a coupon that entitles the bearer to collect the tax plus the rate from the property owner, but requires the bearer to pay the base tax to the taxing authority. If a few years go by without the property owner retiring the debt, the holder can send a notice with some time requirements and after that, they can sue for the title and then they own the property. Usually the owner pays at the last moment but then they owe attorney's fees. Adverse possession is completely different and would require living in the tax-delinquent property for several years.
- stackskipton 1y ago
  Whole problem is likely the value of the land is less than taxes owed. So any system where county is HAS to get the taxes owed means no one will touch the property.
  - singleshot_ 1y ago
    Thais “whole problem” is precisely what the existing system solves. I bid a future obligation to pay the tax only without the obligation to buy the land. At the end of the year, the county gets the whole tax payment from me. It’s tempting to talk about “the whole problem” but if you don’t know how the system works it can be hard to see the forest for the trees.
    - singleshot_ 1y ago
      Also I’ve never encountered a situation where the taxes past due exceeded the value of the land. The reason why is that long before this happens, someone already bought the tax debt, waited the statutory period, noticed the delinquent taxpayer, and filed for a quitclaim to transfer the land.

toast0 1y ago

> Probably need some form of tax amnesty system where counties can seize these properties, sell them off for any amount and wipe tax bill clean. However, that's process would be ripe for corruption which thinking about TX, I'm surprised they haven't allowed that. In Washington state, tax foreclosure has a minimum bid of the taxes due and if there is no bid, the county takes title. Then there are procedures to sell those 'tax title' properties, my county says typically the minimum price is 80% of assessed value ... which would typically be more than the tax debt, so maybe better to participate in the tax foreclosure auction. I don't know that the county has a duty to maintain tax title lands. Vacant land is probably going to get emergency maintenance by a government agency of last resort anyway.

jdeibele 1y ago
There might not be a duty but I would say it's good policy. Tall grass is a fire risk and often a place to dump things. Also a source of weeds that spread to neighboring properties.
SoftTalker 1y ago
Worse than vacant land will be land with abandoned structures, which would need to be demolished at someone's expense. Especially industrial sites where there may be hazardous waste, underground tanks, etc. present as well.
- bobthepanda 1y ago
  Right but there's not much of a difference between the government taking title and having to do it, and the government suing somebody who won't do it and then probably having to do it anyways. Most Rust Belt cities had to do something like this because it turns out that just letting derelict property go resulted in neighborhoods death spiraling.
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    Yep. We should probably have industrial developers pay into some kind of fund that is then available to pay for cleanup if the site is abandoned. Basically insurance against a bankrupt owner leaving a mess for the public to deal with. Instead we often give them tax abatements and other incentives with little recourse if they don’t deliver the promised economic growth and jobs.

xbmcuser 1y ago

Lol you forget the llc are mostly owned by these politicians and their donors why would they do something that hurts themselves.