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Not far beyond. I'm old, so second-hand it seems that the entire reason he toured to do readings (at least in the 80s and 90s) was to stay with locals who had y
by pessimizer 1y ago
Not far beyond. I'm old, so second-hand it seems that the entire reason he toured to do readings (at least in the 80s and 90s) was to stay with locals who had young male children. I know two horror stories myself.
It was sort of a hippie/counterculture/futurist/Berkeley thing to let pedophiles openly operate and attack anyone as nosy lame perverts who would accuse them of being a problem, even after multiple arrests. See the Breendoggle.
- abdulhaq 1y agoWhen I was a physics student at Oxford in 1983-86 I was a voracious reader and the Beats figured in that. Ginsberg travelled through Oxford for a day or two and gave some street performances. His nephew (Vincent?) was travelling with him, playing guitar IIRC. I must admit, I had my concerns at the time.
- ants_everywhere 1y agoThere was a similar attitude in some French intellectual circles in the seventies and eighties. For example I know Simone de Beauvoir and Sartre were involved. Having known several victims of CSA and some of their abusers, I think many people would be surprised at the amount of effort and planning that goes into ensuring access to a pool of potential victims. Abstractly it's a supply chain problem and is treated as such by the abusers.
- throaway1988 1y agoSimilar to an addict, you need to know you have your supply at hand…
- bitwize 1y ago> For example I know Simone de Beauvoir and Sartre were involved. Most famously, Michel Foucault.
- ngcc_hk 1y agoAny link to Simone and Sartre?
- ants_everywhere 1y ago> The signatories to the January 1977 petition included Gabriel Matzneff (the petition's author), Jean-Louis Bory, Pierre Hahn [eo; fr; ia; pt], Jean-Luc Hennig [ar; fr; ru], Guy Hocquenghem, Françoise d'Eaubonne, René Schérer, Pierre Guyotat, Louis Aragon, Francis Ponge, Roland Barthes, Simone de Beauvoir, Philippe Sollers, Patrice Chéreau, Bernard Kouchner, François Châtelet, Gilles Deleuze, Félix Guattari, Jean-Paul Sartre, and Jean-François Lyotard.[6] > Notably, the signatories did not include Michel Foucault,[6]: 16 Marguerite Duras, Hélène Cixous, or Xavière Gauthier [fr; sv], who all refused to sign the January petition.[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petitions_against_age-of-consent_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petitions_against_age-o... This was in defense of people arrested for sexual abuse of children 12-13.
- lukan 1y agoGerman Wikipedia conveniently left that part out and in the english Wikipedia you have to scroll quite a bit to read it mentioned. "I said I've had many young affairs, [with those who were] 16, 17, or 18." Still, it matters a bit to me, whether we are talking about consensual things or not. 16 year olds might be naive, but they are also not small children and usually capable of saying no. (Body language no, is also a no). So do those horror stories involve ignoring a "no" from Ginsberg towards a minor?
- Forgeties79 1y agoI’m not sure this is the kind of debate you want to have.
- lukan 1y agoOh, I certainly don‘t want to debate what counts as abuse. I just like to form an opinion on Ginsberg, so some clarification what exactly "horror stories" mean here, would be helpful.
- throaway1988 1y ago[flagged]
- Forgeties79 1y agoI am not debating what counts as child sexual abuse with you. I also doubt this is a hill you want to die on.
- throaway1988 1y agowho said i’m debating anything? there are actual terms for these things you know.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]