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Ah, how wonderful, to stumble upon lost Kerouac like this, tucked away not in some Yale archive but in the collection of Paul Castellano of all people, as if th
by mkovach 1y ago
Ah, how wonderful, to stumble upon lost Kerouac like this, tucked away not in some Yale archive but in the collection of Paul Castellano of all people, as if the road had detoured briefly through the Five Families. That it reads like a missing chapter from On the Road makes the find all the more mythic, like a Polaroid from a dream you forgot you had.
But this, for some reason, reminds me that Kerouac was also a devoted baseball mind. Not just a fan, but a proto-fantasy league commissioner before the term existed, meticulously tracking invented teams and players in private box scores. Kerouac, a fantasy baseball writer.
And he wasn't alone: Corso batted lines like fastballs, Ferlinghetti cheered from the dugout of City Lights, and Ginsberg, ever the cosmic catcher, enjoyed the sport. Baseball wasn't a pastime but a parallel Beat narrative, complete with innings, errors, and the occasional poetic balk and haiku.
- ants_everywhere 1y ago[flagged]
- pessimizer 1y agoNot far beyond. I'm old, so second-hand it seems that the entire reason he toured to do readings (at least in the 80s and 90s) was to stay with locals who had young male children. I know two horror stories myself. It was sort of a hippie/counterculture/futurist/Berkeley thing to let pedophiles openly operate and attack anyone as nosy lame perverts who would accuse them of being a problem, even after multiple arrests. See the Breendoggle.
- abdulhaq 1y agoWhen I was a physics student at Oxford in 1983-86 I was a voracious reader and the Beats figured in that. Ginsberg travelled through Oxford for a day or two and gave some street performances. His nephew (Vincent?) was travelling with him, playing guitar IIRC. I must admit, I had my concerns at the time.
- ants_everywhere 1y agoThere was a similar attitude in some French intellectual circles in the seventies and eighties. For example I know Simone de Beauvoir and Sartre were involved. Having known several victims of CSA and some of their abusers, I think many people would be surprised at the amount of effort and planning that goes into ensuring access to a pool of potential victims. Abstractly it's a supply chain problem and is treated as such by the abusers.
- throaway1988 1y agoSimilar to an addict, you need to know you have your supply at hand…
- bitwize 1y ago> For example I know Simone de Beauvoir and Sartre were involved. Most famously, Michel Foucault.
- ngcc_hk 1y agoAny link to Simone and Sartre?
- ants_everywhere 1y ago> The signatories to the January 1977 petition included Gabriel Matzneff (the petition's author), Jean-Louis Bory, Pierre Hahn [eo; fr; ia; pt], Jean-Luc Hennig [ar; fr; ru], Guy Hocquenghem, Françoise d'Eaubonne, René Schérer, Pierre Guyotat, Louis Aragon, Francis Ponge, Roland Barthes, Simone de Beauvoir, Philippe Sollers, Patrice Chéreau, Bernard Kouchner, François Châtelet, Gilles Deleuze, Félix Guattari, Jean-Paul Sartre, and Jean-François Lyotard.[6] > Notably, the signatories did not include Michel Foucault,[6]: 16 Marguerite Duras, Hélène Cixous, or Xavière Gauthier [fr; sv], who all refused to sign the January petition.[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petitions_against_age-of-consent_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_petitions_against_age-o... This was in defense of people arrested for sexual abuse of children 12-13.
- lukan 1y agoGerman Wikipedia conveniently left that part out and in the english Wikipedia you have to scroll quite a bit to read it mentioned. "I said I've had many young affairs, [with those who were] 16, 17, or 18." Still, it matters a bit to me, whether we are talking about consensual things or not. 16 year olds might be naive, but they are also not small children and usually capable of saying no. (Body language no, is also a no). So do those horror stories involve ignoring a "no" from Ginsberg towards a minor?
- Forgeties79 1y agoI’m not sure this is the kind of debate you want to have.
- lukan 1y agoOh, I certainly don‘t want to debate what counts as abuse. I just like to form an opinion on Ginsberg, so some clarification what exactly "horror stories" mean here, would be helpful.
- throaway1988 1y ago[flagged]
- Forgeties79 1y agoI am not debating what counts as child sexual abuse with you. I also doubt this is a hill you want to die on.
- throaway1988 1y agowho said i’m debating anything? there are actual terms for these things you know.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- cm2012 1y agoBeat culture seems riddled with abusers and sociopaths.
- tclancy 1y agoCould be why they rebelled against the society they were raised in. But still fell victim.
- LightBug1 1y ago[flagged]
- zoklet-enjoyer 1y agoFinding out about that whole NAMBLA thing was very disappointing
- dyauspitr 1y ago16 is the age of consent in most parts of Europe. I refuse to vilify someone for doing something completely legal.
- justinator 1y agoThe age gap makes it predatorial. Unless you're OK with 16 year olds having sex with 50 year olds who have been given access to them because of their fame an accolades, as well as personal connections?
- dyauspitr 1y agoYes, of course I’m okay with that. The power dynamic imbalance probably makes it even more interesting for the 50 year old. It’s legal, I’m not going to judge what some old man is getting off on.
- ants_everywhere 1y agoThe pro-pedophilia group Ginsberg was vocally involved with worked to abolish age of consent laws. As in literally no age of consent.
- dyauspitr 1y agoEven the most conservative societies on earth still have the legal age of consent be post puberty. Frankly I don’t think any group could successfully lobby for no age of consent.
- VoodooJuJu 1y ago[dead]
- eth0up 1y agoI lived right down the street from the bar where he died, in Saint Pete FL. I don't remember what or if the property is / still is. Perforated ulcer hit critical mass after the daily round of whiskey. I wonder if hpylori made it worse or it was just the suds. Edit: found this while searching for the bar https://stpetekerouachouse.com/ https://stpetekerouachouse.com/
- mkovach 1y agoVery cool! You lived down the street! And yes, Kerouac's turn toward health mainly counteracted the booze. Oh, and another fun fact: Kerouac once befriended a former minor league baseball player who'd also played college football. He encouraged the guy to try acting. In a roundabout way, we have Jack Kerouac to thank for Paul Gleason, one of the '80s movies' most memorable villains. (An interesting man in his own right.) (There are enough quotes and parentheses in this reply to resemble a LISP program, sorry about that.)
- eth0up 1y agoWhy your comment is being dragged down I think is best described by staring at The Torment of Saint Anthony. The creatures you see are the creatures here, fondling the arrows that point in the only direction they know. Do not be discouraged. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Michelangelo_Buonarroti_-_The_Torment_of_Saint_Anthony_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg/960px-Michelangelo_Buonarroti_-_The_Torment_of_Saint_Anthony_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Mi...
- sillyfluke 1y agomovie pitch: Kerouac has some debt that falls on Castellono's people to collect. Kerouac tries to get out of it by convincing them to take a story instead of cash. They lock him up in a room somewhere until he writes the story. Movie is basically two or more people talking in a room, or just Kerouac seen talking with whoever is in the room, off screen.
- mkovach 1y agoI really enjoyed this take. Awesome!