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Worth reading all the way through. > “No disrespect, sir, but I think this poetry crap is pretty useless.” > This was Troy, another very vocal cadet.

Worth reading all the way through. > “No disrespect, sir, but I think this poetry crap is pretty useless.” > This was Troy, another very vocal cadet. Troy often sounded off about > the worthlessness of “English.” English was his catch-all term for the > humanities, social sciences, and any mode of intellectual inquiry > without one “right” answer and some solid practical application, like > building a bridge or blowing one up. It's funny how often I run into people in the tech/science/math scene who have similar opinions. Maybe they phrase it differently -- "Why go to college for something like English, or Art, when it's not going to be cost effective" comes up a lot -- but the sentiment is the same. I'll leave the argument that they are worth studying to commenters more intelligent and more eloquent than I am, but I thought it was interesting how similar West Point and the Bay Area were in this respect.

gruseom 14y ago
I like reading W. Patrick Lang's blog sometimes. Lang is a military man who retired as a colonel and now writes novels. He made an interesting comment about how, traditionally, it was through the arts and letters that soldiers got to know what their values were - values such as honor. In his view, with the decline of humanities education, the military has become increasingly purely technocratic and these values are being lost, with considerable implications for society as a whole. This is a defense of the humanities I had never heard before, and it really stuck with me. I think there is something profound to it.
- mc32 14y ago
  The article stated that in some academies, at least, they were surpassing the 20% civilian faculty goal, so it seems that they are trying to make it less 'technocratic'.
  - gruseom 14y ago
    Technocratic vs. humanities is orthogonal to military vs. civilian, so it depends entirely on what they're teaching. In any case, these changes in military education are simply mirroring society as a whole, as peter_l_downs pointed out. Lang observed that it has consequences for the military, and for the relationship of the military to society, that are not obvious at first.
mc32 14y ago
>It's funny how often I run into people in the tech/science/math scene who have similar opinions. Likewise lots of people in other fields wonder why they are subjected to "maths I will never use". It's easier for people to justify something they prefer than that which they have less interest in.
Intermernet 14y ago
Whenever I see this line of thought I always recommend people read Douglas Hofstadter's amazing book Godel, Escher, Bach. It's almost impossible to argue that art and science are even separate once you've read that.
pnathan 14y ago
Agreed, this is an excruciatingly common viewpoint in my experience with other CS/tech geeks. It's often justified by some variant of "tech makes money, ergo, tech is good". Or alternatively, "tech is objective, ergo, tech is good".
darklajid 14y ago
A personal anecdote: As a mostly self-educated programmer/overall geek that married a girl who's now unemployed after studying 'social science' (Is that a word? A subject? That's what Google translates the German term to, which seems a little to literal to be 'right') for a while and then finishing 'History of European arts' / 'German literature' I confess that I sometimes have these thoughts myself. Worse, SHE has the same thoughts by now. She recently (and slowly) started to learn Python, because she thinks this stuff is so much more applicable/useful, where applicable/useful is measured via 'in demand'. We're the textbook example of having books covering programming or sci/fi, fantasy stuff (mine) and Real Literature (tm) (hers). But _she_ is feeling useless and probably would love to change history to change career. So next time you see these rude people I'd like you to think of a totally non-representing story you read on HN and consider that these people might've adopted that opinion (at least in parts) from the demographic they judge in your view. From a wife, a friend or a dozen professors-turned-taxi-drivers that complain about their own field and the lack of jobs, of demand and the feeling of being useful with their education. It's a broader problem than people being judgmental about fields other than their own.

gruseom 14y ago

I like reading W. Patrick Lang's blog sometimes. Lang is a military man who retired as a colonel and now writes novels. He made an interesting comment about how, traditionally, it was through the arts and letters that soldiers got to know what their values were - values such as honor. In his view, with the decline of humanities education, the military has become increasingly purely technocratic and these values are being lost, with considerable implications for society as a whole. This is a defense of the humanities I had never heard before, and it really stuck with me. I think there is something profound to it.

mc32 14y ago
The article stated that in some academies, at least, they were surpassing the 20% civilian faculty goal, so it seems that they are trying to make it less 'technocratic'.
- gruseom 14y ago
  Technocratic vs. humanities is orthogonal to military vs. civilian, so it depends entirely on what they're teaching. In any case, these changes in military education are simply mirroring society as a whole, as peter_l_downs pointed out. Lang observed that it has consequences for the military, and for the relationship of the military to society, that are not obvious at first.

mc32 14y ago

>It's funny how often I run into people in the tech/science/math scene who have similar opinions. Likewise lots of people in other fields wonder why they are subjected to "maths I will never use". It's easier for people to justify something they prefer than that which they have less interest in.

Intermernet 14y ago

Whenever I see this line of thought I always recommend people read Douglas Hofstadter's amazing book Godel, Escher, Bach. It's almost impossible to argue that art and science are even separate once you've read that.

pnathan 14y ago

Agreed, this is an excruciatingly common viewpoint in my experience with other CS/tech geeks. It's often justified by some variant of "tech makes money, ergo, tech is good". Or alternatively, "tech is objective, ergo, tech is good".

darklajid 14y ago

A personal anecdote: As a mostly self-educated programmer/overall geek that married a girl who's now unemployed after studying 'social science' (Is that a word? A subject? That's what Google translates the German term to, which seems a little to literal to be 'right') for a while and then finishing 'History of European arts' / 'German literature' I confess that I sometimes have these thoughts myself. Worse, SHE has the same thoughts by now. She recently (and slowly) started to learn Python, because she thinks this stuff is so much more applicable/useful, where applicable/useful is measured via 'in demand'. We're the textbook example of having books covering programming or sci/fi, fantasy stuff (mine) and Real Literature (tm) (hers). But _she_ is feeling useless and probably would love to change history to change career. So next time you see these rude people I'd like you to think of a totally non-representing story you read on HN and consider that these people might've adopted that opinion (at least in parts) from the demographic they judge in your view. From a wife, a friend or a dozen professors-turned-taxi-drivers that complain about their own field and the lack of jobs, of demand and the feeling of being useful with their education. It's a broader problem than people being judgmental about fields other than their own.