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So the central controversy in the story is whether the journalist fans should share the solution with the world or keep quiet for the auction. Sanborn wants th
by janalsncm 1y ago
So the central controversy in the story is whether the journalist fans should share the solution with the world or keep quiet for the auction.
Sanborn wants the money for medical reasons so he needs to maintain a high sale price.
The two fans want to share the solution with the world.
Presumably the winner of the auction will be buying a severely depreciating asset: the right to know but not disclose the solution. There are at least four people who have the solution and as soon as one of them shares it, its value goes to zero.
Maybe the “solution” to this meta problem is simple: auction it off to the public with a go fund me. As soon as it reaches $500k, publish the solution. That way everyone wins.
The whole thing got more complicated with the addition of lawyers, not less. I don’t see how the two fans violated any contracts with the artist or auction house since they never signed one. But of course lawyers will charge a ton for you to find out.
- tptacek 1y agoDo I understand part of the complexity of the situation is that Kryptos is in some sense "crackable" (unlike real cryptography), and these two people sleuthed their way to the answer book without solving it? Which is not quite exactly the same thing as them independently working out a solution; it's more like a nicer and more legal version of breaking into the guy's house and stealing it out of his desk drawer?
- moron4hire 1y agoAt the state level, it's a method that is in bounds.
- tptacek 1y agoI don't have an opinion! As a cryptography pentester, Kryptos has always kind of set my teeth on edge (Wikipedia had editors covering cryptography topics whose expertise was rooted in Kryptos puzzle-crypto). But one of the smartest people I know is also a Kryptos enthusiast so this is all very complicated for me.
- irjustin 1y agoYes, but all things considered, that's outside the bounds of this cypher - which is why "we all" feel cheated.
- HPsquared 1y ago"What we think intelligence agencies do" vs "what intelligence agencies actually do"
- sgustard 1y agoCan we even determine if what they found is the key, or just the plaintext? The article mentions they recognized bits of plaintext (Berlin clock) in the archives.
- codeduck 1y agoTechnically what they accomplished is a successful side channel attack.
- nocoiner 1y agoHere, I’ll give you this one for free: it’s called tortious interference. As the name suggests, it’s a tort, so you don’t need to sign a contact to be liable.
- tptacek 1y agoThere would need to be (1) an existing valid contract, (2) knowledge by the defendants of it, (3) intentional and unjustified inducements by the defendants to break it, followed by (4) an actual breach that (5) caused damages. Doesn't seem like that would fit here. This seems like more of an ethical dilemma than a legal one.
- Retric 1y ago> There would need to be (1) an existing valid contract, Your (1) is false. You can damage a business relationship that doesn’t involve a signed contract. “Tortious interference with business relationships occurs where the tortfeasor intentionally acts to prevent someone from successfully establishing or maintaining business relationships with others.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference
- tptacek 1y agoOK, but the interference still needs to be improper!
- Retric 1y agoAgreed, though I’m not sure if it would be considered proper or improper here.
- do_not_redeem 1y agoThey aren't doing it with the intent to damage his business. They're just doing something they would have done anyway. You can't claim tortious interference just because someone throws a wrench in your business plans. Sanborn has about as much of a case as Microsoft has against Linus Torvalds for creating Linux and hurting their sales of Windows. (I'll give you this one for free: none.)
- themafia 1y agoMake the auction include the physical piece of art itself. Then you're buying a tangible and transferable asset. I think the CIA has enough money it can endeavor to replace it. What value does a cracked puzzle even have to them?
- JackFr 1y agoIt always bothered me because cryptography isn’t the CIA’s thing. Spies and analysis are their thing. Code breaking is the NSA
- throwaway48476 1y agoGovernment agencies do not have cleanly separated roles. They tend to grow and agglomerate capabilities to maximally soak up budget allocation. NSA is primarily SIGINT.
- Avshalom 1y agoFeels like the central controversy is that Sanborn has to auction anything off for medical reasons.
- meowface 1y agoTrue. The central problem described in the article is that he has cancer and doesn't want to go bankrupt from the medical bills. I'm not a socialist and am broadly pro-capitalism, but for decades I've held a firm belief that healthcare should have a public option and people should have the ability to get high-quality medical care for $0, no matter how realistic that would be.
- buckle8017 1y agoThe simple reality is that advanced medical care is expensive. Access to advanced medical care can either by gated by one person's wealth or by the average wealth of many people. At the end of the day though, someone is paying and the only way to actually cost reduce is too have worse treatment.
- vlovich123 1y agoOr more effective treatment and not paying for ineffective ones. And less regulation and gatekeeping of which there’s a lot in the US (like needing insane levels of doctor oversight for buying medications)
- hvb2 1y ago> the only way to actually cost reduce is too have worse treatment. So tell me, why is random blood work billed for over 400$? Just to analyze the sample? Part of the problem is definitely inflated pricing and no real transparency. Unless you need that rockstar surgeon for that super specialty treatment that only the US can offer, the US healthcare system is just overpriced, broken and a money grab
- sixothree 1y ago> the only way to actually cost reduce is too have worse treatment If you cut out profit motive, you can _definitely_ make it cheaper. Your statement is incorrect.
- irjustin 1y agoHonestly, everything about this is really sad. I, like may of you guys, have followed this thing for years, for many others, decades. Actual decryption effort group didn't get to decrypt (a small but faithful community), the creator needed the money for medical procedures that he really believed was coming in. The solution feels like we all go cheated out of something. Lawyers are now involved and the value of the solution is rapidly plummeting. No one's winning because of a small mistake.
- gigatexal 1y agoCan we talk about how broken America’s medical system is that folks make decisions based on medical issues or bills?
- alwahi 1y agoi guess cooking meth is not an option when you have a sculpture in cia hq
- monster_truck 1y agojokes aside, you would be responsible for single digit percentages of the global yearly production to make this kind of coin (after the cost of equipment, precursors, money laundering, and assuming bulk sales) just isn't realistic