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9 if you count people from the Republic of China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_l
by kragen 1y ago
9 if you count people from the Republic of China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_cou...).
But, since the Nobel was established, China has been invaded by Germany, Japan, Russia, Britain (largely India), France, the United States, Italy, Austria-Hungary, and Japan again, and had a civil war which hasn't technically ended (plus the end of the Boxer Rebellion), a revolution, and the worst famine in human history. But probably the worst event for its Nobel chances was https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution. The civil wars also brought to power brutal dictatorships, including in the so-called Republic of China.
The US has been invaded zero times and had zero civil wars during that period, and in the US, the Cultural Revolution and dictatorship are just starting. Consequently many people who might have been Chinese, German, Japanese, Russian, etc., during the period in question were instead born in the US. And note that, on the page I linked above, 6 Nobel laureates from the US were actually born in China: Charles K. Kao, Daniel C. Tsui, Edmond H. Fischer, Yang, Tsung-Dao Lee, and Walter H. Brattain (!).
- cnasc 1y ago[flagged]
- hker 1y ago> 9 if you count people... 13 according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_Nobel_laureates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_Nobel_laureate..., including peace prize laureates Liu Xiaobo (2010) and the 14th Dalai Lama (1989). > But, since the Nobel was established, China has been invaded... > The US has been invaded zero times... The number of external invasions is not a strong indicator of the number of Nobel Prizes, if you compare all countries, beyond just China or the US. And as you mentioned, the Cultural Revolution greatly reduces the chance of Chinese Nobel, so internal events can take a large role. And Mao led to more deaths—not to mention destruction to science and culture—than external invasions in the last century combined. > The civil wars also brought to power brutal dictatorships... The dictatorship arguably hasn't ended, by taking another less brutal form. And to be precise, CCP brought the civil wars and its consequences, not the civil wars brought dictatorships.
- synergy20 1y agoMao killed less than Taiping Rebellion, which had 100M per some study. Mao is probably half of that ,still more than world war 1 and 2 combined.
- kragen 1y agoYes, but that was 50 years before the Nobel Prizes were established.
- yorwba 1y agoI don't think even the Cultural Revolution or anything else Mao did had much of an effect on Nobel prize-worthy research, simply because there wasn't much to disrupt to begin with. In terms of education, the biggest change was in secondary school enrollment, which more than doubled during the Cultural Revolution before dropping back down, which I assume represents people staying students for longer instead of graduating, rather than an expansion of access. University education remained a rarity for long after that, only surpassing 10% enrollment in 2002: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/primary-secondary-enrollment-completion-rates?country=~CHN https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/primary-secondary-enrollm... I guess we'll see Chinese scientists winning Nobels at a rate commensurate with other big countries in 20–40 years or so.
- mytailorisrich 1y agoThe War of 1812... when the British burned down the White House and the Capitol surely has to count as an "invasion".
- tpm 1y agoThat was before Nobel prize was established.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- manquer 1y ago> China has been invaded by ... Britain (largely India) That is such an interesting characterization of the territorial disputes between PRC(and/or ROC) and RoI.
- kragen 1y agoThis was 40 years before the Republic of India was formed.
- IAmBroom 1y agoAre you unaware of the history leading to and from the Boxer Rebellion?
- manquer 1y agoThe parent poster is talking about the Younghusband expedition into Tibet of 1903[1], I don't think it is the boxer rebellion in which British Indian troops had no direct involvement(AFAIK) and also those events happened before 1901 establishment of the Nobel Prize, which is the time period OP cites as the starting time range. To see the Tibetan military expedition as an invasion of China, means to accept the Qing dynasty and its successor states (ROC,PRC)claim of sovereignty and not suzerainty over Tibet. A claim at the time which was not recognized by other countries specifically Russia, Britain and also Tibet. The refusal of Tibetan government to accept terms of treaties they were not party to directly (i.e. the ones Qing China signed) was the official reason stated for the invasion by the British. Either way it is a deeply contentious topic never legally settled in the 1907 agreement and had implications both to that era and modern geopolitics. No one then or now is purely looking at merits of the arguments. The points will end up into esoteric discussion on whether is kowtowing and kneeling are the same thing, or is acknowledging supremacy is same as sovereignty, or the differences between vassal state or autonomous region or protectorate or suzerain. Also the views of the countries/entities (or their successors) have also changed including the Tibetan government-in-exile in the last 120 years. My knowledge of history is at best a passing student at high school level, this kind of discussion requires deep understanding of relationship of states, and of Chinese culture and language during Qing dynasty i.e. professional expertise which I certainly don't have. --- [1] My initial read was they meant either Arunachal Pradesh( South Tibet to the Chinese), Aksai Chin or the MacMohan line etc, but they clarified it wasn't the case.