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The historical revisionism among the Appleistas is a bit disconcerting. This is not a matter of the "suits" overruling Jobs' "pirates". Apple's current anti-G

The historical revisionism among the Appleistas is a bit disconcerting. This is not a matter of the "suits" overruling Jobs' "pirates". Apple's current anti-Google jihad is Jobs' baby. This is what he wanted. Now, it's entirely possible that he would never have authorized iOS shipping with a broken maps application, but to suggest that Apple's current direction is anything other than his idea and his impetus is naive in the extreme.

wklauss 14y ago
Here we go again. Other than Jobs tantrum in his book and countless of headlines and blog post, where is this fantastic "jihad"? I see the same level of love/hate between Apple and Google than between Microsoft/Google or Google/Amazon. We just overanalyze it to disturbing extremes, but thats about it.
- warmwaffles 14y ago
  your comment jihad needs to be reanalyzed. You are right though. Need to read less in the lines. I do believe Apple is suing to protect its best interests. There is really no other way to protect your product than through litigation.
- batgaijin 14y ago
  Are you serious? What do you call the patent war between Samsung, HTC and every manufacturer of Android phones and Apple besides a proxy war?
  - wklauss 14y ago
    I will call it a patent war, not a jihad (I'm tired of reading religious analogies attached to technology, they are an easy trick to perform on the readers mind) And, you know, there are PLENTY of companies involved in patent wars and we don't routinely position them on the "obsessed against their competition" category. They are just litigious. In some of the examples you mention the Android manufacturers are the ones suing Apple, not the other way around. Are they "obsessed" with Apple?. Are they carrying a jihad against Cupertino, as well?
    - trg2 14y ago
      Totally agree. I work at an eBay Inc. company, and I feel like we announce both a new partnership and a new lawsuit with Google every week. Welcome to the valley.
  - brisance 14y ago
    It's overblown because if Apple were really upset at Samsung they wouldn't be supplying parts for iPhone 5. Remember, according to court filings Apple approached Samsung first to try to settle it before resorting to legal means.
    - cageface 14y ago
      Happening already: The Korean Times is reporting this morning that "Apple has reduced purchases of liquid crystal display (LCD) panels for tablet computers from Samsung Display amid the deepening patent disputes, said a leading market research firm, Friday. Market experts said that the move is aimed at minimizing its reliance on Samsung parts." http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/09/apple-cuts-display-orders-to-samsung-loses-patent-case-in-germany.html http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/09/apple-cu...
      - beedogs 14y ago
        At a certain point, Apple is going to run out of partners to piss off.
        enraged_camel 14y ago
        They have over $100 billion in the bank. With that amount of money, there will always be someone willing to partner up with Apple.
      - ankushnarula 14y ago
        Speculative at best. High density display sales are ever-increasing across the market - it makes sense for Apple to diversify the supply chain. That said, it makes little to no sense to feed your competition purely from a business standpoint. Samsung can of course continue to sell their parts to other OEMs.
      - simonh 14y ago
        There have also been reports that Apple offered to purchase exclusive access to some of TSMC's foundry capacity in order to diversify away from Samsung for processor fabrication, but TSMC prefer to keep their options open. Apple's problem is that only Samsung operates at sufficient scale to be able to guarantee delivery in the volumes Apple needs.
  - ceol 14y ago
    I would call it the same shit that's been happening between almost every tech company since the early 2000s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone_wars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone_wars
quaunaut 14y ago
Thing is, as much as I believe Jobs definitely was the one to start this(it's his quote after all), I don't think he'd cut off his nose to spite his face.
- RyanMcGreal 14y ago
  But would he accidentally erase it?
luke_s 14y ago
Well, I don't think the article said that the current problems were once again caused by the "suits" overruling the "pirates". I think it just mentioned the suits and pirates to give a bit of background on what happened last time and why. Based off what I have heard of Jobs he was more than capable of conceiving of and carrying out a vendetta against Google of this scale, without needing any help from be-suited MBA's. The point is not who decided to go after google in the fist place. The point is; taking it to these lengths is stopping Apple from focusing on what is really important: Producing great hardware and software, that will delight users.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
ender7 14y ago
What worries me is that while Jobs was the one to turn the holy war on, he may have been the only one who could have turned it off again. One of his greatest strengths was his ability to believe something incredibly strongly, but then to change that belief quickly (and, at times, mercurially). Jobs's war on Google would have been hot and nasty, but I think he would have moved on to other things after a while. I worry that the remaining leadership at Apple sees this war as their memorial to Jobs, and will take it far further than might be prudent.
- enraged_camel 14y ago
  I think if he had lived for another five years, he would have made peace with Google like he did with Microsoft.
  - jfoutz 14y ago
    If he had lived for another five years, apple would have a new product. As it is, we're looking at ipad 8 and iphone 11. There are a ton of smart, talented people working at apple, but no indication of focus or vision. Maybe, after a few years of mourning, apple might be able to do something really new. As it is, all those smart people are going to keep doing what they have been doing. That's ok in most organizations, apple is a race car. It's delicate, fragile, and super fast. Also, it's never getting another oil change. let's see how long it runs until it throws a rod.
    - eshvk 14y ago
      > If he had lived for another five years, apple would have a new product. As it is, we're looking at ipad 8 and iphone 11. There are a ton of smart, talented people working at apple, but no indication of focus or vision. Maybe, after a few years of mourning, apple might be able to do something really new. As it is, all those smart people are going to keep doing what they have been doing. That's ok in most organizations, apple is a race car. It's delicate, fragile, and super fast. Also, it's never getting another oil change. let's see how long it runs until it throws a rod. I am confused but do you know something we don't? How are you so sure that they have no long term focus or vision? As far as the rest of the general public is privy to, the only new products out are the slim 15" MBP and the iPhone 5, hardly enough samples to assert that there is no new product out there and they are only iterating on current products...
jrockway 14y ago
According to the Appleistas, it still counts as "thermonuclear war" if you detonate the nukes over your own cities. Keep calm and carry on! (Insert joke about the 3D maps.)
- caf 14y ago
  Funnily enough, I was reading just the other day about Edward Teller. One of the weapons on his drawing board was a 10 gigaton bomb, for which the delivery method was "BACKYARD" - as in, it's much too heavy to move it anywhere, so it's employed by blowing it up in your own backyard.
fonosip 14y ago
Apple had no choice but to make its own maps. IOS5 already lacked turn by turn navigation because Google would not provide it (as a competitive advantage to android). So Apple building its own maps it's mandatory. Execution has been sub par so far. But Apple has always been sub-par at cloud services. They are improving but slowly
- jaredonline 14y ago
  Thank you someone for bringing this up. I can't believe how many actual reviews (not just meme's poking fun at iOS6 maps) have missed this crucial point. This isn't about Apple trying to somehow hurt Google by rolling its own maps app, this is about Google not giving Apple full access to their maps.
  - kalleboo 14y ago
    The issue is nobody knows the truth here. I think the more plausible scenario is that Google wanted something that Apple refused to give (e.g., advertising revenue, user data, etc), making it not so clear cut as "It's XX's fault!"
    - bluedanieru 14y ago
      And, they're releasing a maps app for iOS6 now, anyway.
      - chmars 14y ago
        iOS App Store URL? (There are no indications of a Google Maps app AFAIK but I also hope we will get one soon …)
        bluedanieru 14y ago
        There was an article on here yesterday that they'd submitted it to the store. I'm not following this too closely other than listening to folks at work bitch about it. (And on HN.)
andrewljohnson 14y ago
Maps-gate, antenna-gate, BS-gate. Every time Apple ships an iDevice, the internet and tech press spin some yarn about a defect in the device, how it isn't a big enough improvement, how it's only smaller and thinner, how it's copying Android. And what happens... every, single, time? The public buys them in droves, and adores them to the last man. Apple Maps is both a strong technical flourish, and it's a bold strategy for overtaking the leaders by bolstering OpenStreetMap, and I think that end game is going to work.
- i386 14y ago
  Here here. Apple have had plenty of failures even after Jobs second coming (Hello Ping!) and its highly revisionist of the technology talking heads to think otherwise. I believe Apple could have spent another year on it behind closed doors and not gotten much further than they are now. What Apple Maps needs is right now is users, well, using Apple Maps to help direct locations that need improving (that are not downtown San Francisco or Cupertino).
  - kaiwetzel 14y ago
    Not being a native speaker I had to google for it but it seems the correct usage is "hear, hear"[1]. (Just pointing it out in case other people are in a similar situation as me). [1] http://www.unbecominglevity.com/2008/11/10/hear-hear-or-here-here/ http://www.unbecominglevity.com/2008/11/10/hear-hear-or-here...
- sunkencity 14y ago
  Dissing apple surely beds for a higher page-view count. I'm sure the problems with the maps will be fixed soon. Nobody knows the real reason, or combination of reasons why Apple is not using Google Maps. It could be Apple and it could be Google, it could be both. It's all just guesses that are fueling the anger at both sides.
- bluedanieru 14y ago
  Counterpoint: iPhone is huge in Japan and led a minor revolution in phones here (prior to iPhone non-Japanese phones were unheard of here). Now you can't even get proper directions to some of the largest train stations, including the busiest one, Shinjuku. I don't know how it is in the States, but in Japan this isn't a regression or an inconvenience, it's a total removal of a heavily used feature. I can't think of a better way Apple could have fucked up the experience for Japanese users. And they were doing so well here, too.

wklauss 14y ago

Here we go again. Other than Jobs tantrum in his book and countless of headlines and blog post, where is this fantastic "jihad"? I see the same level of love/hate between Apple and Google than between Microsoft/Google or Google/Amazon. We just overanalyze it to disturbing extremes, but thats about it.

warmwaffles 14y ago
your comment jihad needs to be reanalyzed. You are right though. Need to read less in the lines. I do believe Apple is suing to protect its best interests. There is really no other way to protect your product than through litigation.
batgaijin 14y ago
Are you serious? What do you call the patent war between Samsung, HTC and every manufacturer of Android phones and Apple besides a proxy war?
- wklauss 14y ago
  I will call it a patent war, not a jihad (I'm tired of reading religious analogies attached to technology, they are an easy trick to perform on the readers mind) And, you know, there are PLENTY of companies involved in patent wars and we don't routinely position them on the "obsessed against their competition" category. They are just litigious. In some of the examples you mention the Android manufacturers are the ones suing Apple, not the other way around. Are they "obsessed" with Apple?. Are they carrying a jihad against Cupertino, as well?
  - trg2 14y ago
    Totally agree. I work at an eBay Inc. company, and I feel like we announce both a new partnership and a new lawsuit with Google every week. Welcome to the valley.
- brisance 14y ago
  It's overblown because if Apple were really upset at Samsung they wouldn't be supplying parts for iPhone 5. Remember, according to court filings Apple approached Samsung first to try to settle it before resorting to legal means.
  - cageface 14y ago
    Happening already: The Korean Times is reporting this morning that "Apple has reduced purchases of liquid crystal display (LCD) panels for tablet computers from Samsung Display amid the deepening patent disputes, said a leading market research firm, Friday. Market experts said that the move is aimed at minimizing its reliance on Samsung parts." http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/09/apple-cuts-display-orders-to-samsung-loses-patent-case-in-germany.html http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/09/apple-cu...
    - beedogs 14y ago
      At a certain point, Apple is going to run out of partners to piss off.
      - enraged_camel 14y ago
        They have over $100 billion in the bank. With that amount of money, there will always be someone willing to partner up with Apple.
    - ankushnarula 14y ago
      Speculative at best. High density display sales are ever-increasing across the market - it makes sense for Apple to diversify the supply chain. That said, it makes little to no sense to feed your competition purely from a business standpoint. Samsung can of course continue to sell their parts to other OEMs.
    - simonh 14y ago
      There have also been reports that Apple offered to purchase exclusive access to some of TSMC's foundry capacity in order to diversify away from Samsung for processor fabrication, but TSMC prefer to keep their options open. Apple's problem is that only Samsung operates at sufficient scale to be able to guarantee delivery in the volumes Apple needs.
- ceol 14y ago
  I would call it the same shit that's been happening between almost every tech company since the early 2000s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone_wars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone_wars

quaunaut 14y ago

Thing is, as much as I believe Jobs definitely was the one to start this(it's his quote after all), I don't think he'd cut off his nose to spite his face.

RyanMcGreal 14y ago
But would he accidentally erase it?

luke_s 14y ago

Well, I don't think the article said that the current problems were once again caused by the "suits" overruling the "pirates". I think it just mentioned the suits and pirates to give a bit of background on what happened last time and why. Based off what I have heard of Jobs he was more than capable of conceiving of and carrying out a vendetta against Google of this scale, without needing any help from be-suited MBA's. The point is not who decided to go after google in the fist place. The point is; taking it to these lengths is stopping Apple from focusing on what is really important: Producing great hardware and software, that will delight users.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

ender7 14y ago

What worries me is that while Jobs was the one to turn the holy war on, he may have been the only one who could have turned it off again. One of his greatest strengths was his ability to believe something incredibly strongly, but then to change that belief quickly (and, at times, mercurially). Jobs's war on Google would have been hot and nasty, but I think he would have moved on to other things after a while. I worry that the remaining leadership at Apple sees this war as their memorial to Jobs, and will take it far further than might be prudent.

enraged_camel 14y ago
I think if he had lived for another five years, he would have made peace with Google like he did with Microsoft.
- jfoutz 14y ago
  If he had lived for another five years, apple would have a new product. As it is, we're looking at ipad 8 and iphone 11. There are a ton of smart, talented people working at apple, but no indication of focus or vision. Maybe, after a few years of mourning, apple might be able to do something really new. As it is, all those smart people are going to keep doing what they have been doing. That's ok in most organizations, apple is a race car. It's delicate, fragile, and super fast. Also, it's never getting another oil change. let's see how long it runs until it throws a rod.
  - eshvk 14y ago
    > If he had lived for another five years, apple would have a new product. As it is, we're looking at ipad 8 and iphone 11. There are a ton of smart, talented people working at apple, but no indication of focus or vision. Maybe, after a few years of mourning, apple might be able to do something really new. As it is, all those smart people are going to keep doing what they have been doing. That's ok in most organizations, apple is a race car. It's delicate, fragile, and super fast. Also, it's never getting another oil change. let's see how long it runs until it throws a rod. I am confused but do you know something we don't? How are you so sure that they have no long term focus or vision? As far as the rest of the general public is privy to, the only new products out are the slim 15" MBP and the iPhone 5, hardly enough samples to assert that there is no new product out there and they are only iterating on current products...

jrockway 14y ago

According to the Appleistas, it still counts as "thermonuclear war" if you detonate the nukes over your own cities. Keep calm and carry on! (Insert joke about the 3D maps.)

caf 14y ago
Funnily enough, I was reading just the other day about Edward Teller. One of the weapons on his drawing board was a 10 gigaton bomb, for which the delivery method was "BACKYARD" - as in, it's much too heavy to move it anywhere, so it's employed by blowing it up in your own backyard.

fonosip 14y ago

Apple had no choice but to make its own maps. IOS5 already lacked turn by turn navigation because Google would not provide it (as a competitive advantage to android). So Apple building its own maps it's mandatory. Execution has been sub par so far. But Apple has always been sub-par at cloud services. They are improving but slowly

jaredonline 14y ago
Thank you someone for bringing this up. I can't believe how many actual reviews (not just meme's poking fun at iOS6 maps) have missed this crucial point. This isn't about Apple trying to somehow hurt Google by rolling its own maps app, this is about Google not giving Apple full access to their maps.
- kalleboo 14y ago
  The issue is nobody knows the truth here. I think the more plausible scenario is that Google wanted something that Apple refused to give (e.g., advertising revenue, user data, etc), making it not so clear cut as "It's XX's fault!"
  - bluedanieru 14y ago
    And, they're releasing a maps app for iOS6 now, anyway.
    - chmars 14y ago
      iOS App Store URL? (There are no indications of a Google Maps app AFAIK but I also hope we will get one soon …)
      - bluedanieru 14y ago
        There was an article on here yesterday that they'd submitted it to the store. I'm not following this too closely other than listening to folks at work bitch about it. (And on HN.)

andrewljohnson 14y ago

Maps-gate, antenna-gate, BS-gate. Every time Apple ships an iDevice, the internet and tech press spin some yarn about a defect in the device, how it isn't a big enough improvement, how it's only smaller and thinner, how it's copying Android. And what happens... every, single, time? The public buys them in droves, and adores them to the last man. Apple Maps is both a strong technical flourish, and it's a bold strategy for overtaking the leaders by bolstering OpenStreetMap, and I think that end game is going to work.

i386 14y ago
Here here. Apple have had plenty of failures even after Jobs second coming (Hello Ping!) and its highly revisionist of the technology talking heads to think otherwise. I believe Apple could have spent another year on it behind closed doors and not gotten much further than they are now. What Apple Maps needs is right now is users, well, using Apple Maps to help direct locations that need improving (that are not downtown San Francisco or Cupertino).
- kaiwetzel 14y ago
  Not being a native speaker I had to google for it but it seems the correct usage is "hear, hear"[1]. (Just pointing it out in case other people are in a similar situation as me). [1] http://www.unbecominglevity.com/2008/11/10/hear-hear-or-here-here/ http://www.unbecominglevity.com/2008/11/10/hear-hear-or-here...
sunkencity 14y ago
Dissing apple surely beds for a higher page-view count. I'm sure the problems with the maps will be fixed soon. Nobody knows the real reason, or combination of reasons why Apple is not using Google Maps. It could be Apple and it could be Google, it could be both. It's all just guesses that are fueling the anger at both sides.
bluedanieru 14y ago
Counterpoint: iPhone is huge in Japan and led a minor revolution in phones here (prior to iPhone non-Japanese phones were unheard of here). Now you can't even get proper directions to some of the largest train stations, including the busiest one, Shinjuku. I don't know how it is in the States, but in Japan this isn't a regression or an inconvenience, it's a total removal of a heavily used feature. I can't think of a better way Apple could have fucked up the experience for Japanese users. And they were doing so well here, too.