6 ms·

Stupid Apple, if only they have used micro-usb... Update: Ok, sorry, looks like sarcasm is not clear, so here.

by dmishe 14y ago

skyebook 14y ago
The article kind of nicely sums up why using USB wouldn't work, adaptation to other transport standards being the big point.
- bryanlarsen 14y ago
  The article explains how micro-usb connectors can be used to connect to both HDMI and display-port. And obviously USB2 can be connected to USB3. All the article is saying is that Lightning could be used to transport USB3, even with only 8 wires. So the only advantages for lightning are that it's reversible, and it makes Apple scads of money.
  - huxley 14y ago
    Scads of money for you or me maybe, but --for Apple-- how could it even register as more than a rounding error on their revenue? I'll be interested to see if there are any advantages to Lightning once it is dissected or if it is just a lock-in play.
  - taligent 14y ago
    Did you even bother to read the article ? The advantage of Lightning is that it is a REAL future proof connector. Completely generic and separate from any current standard. A connector that could still be in use 10-20+ years from now. And the fact you brought up the money argument just shows you have no idea what it is going on.
    - bryanlarsen 14y ago
      You mean the article that explains how microUSB has become compatible with new standards or the article that explains how Lightning could become compatible with new standards? It seems to me that having done something twice in the past is a better proof of being able to do that something than speculation is.
      - flatline3 14y ago
        microUSB hasn't become compatible with new standards, it has been hacked to allow the pinouts to be repurposed for new standards. The implication of this article is that the Lightening port can be repurposed, without changes to the device's hardware, simply by providing a new cable and software.
        bryanlarsen 14y ago
        without changes to the device's hardware If the iPhone5 doesn't have internal USB3 or HDMI or DP support, it can't magically gain it through the use of a new cable and new software. It's probable the iPhone6 will support all or most of those, but that's because they changed the device's hardware...
        dmishe 14y ago
        Why not? The new lighting cable with hdmi or dp chip that transcodes data from soc with new software
      - vvhn 14y ago
        From the article "Common to both MHL and MyDP is the need for an additional transmitter (driver) chip as well as a switcher chip that goes back and forth between that and the USB transceivers. This, of course, implies additional space on the device board for these chips, traces and passive components, as well as increased power consumption. You can, of course, put in a micro-HDMI connector and drive that directly, that would save neither space nor power." That's not microUSB becoming compatible - It's having to add hardware inside the device which makes use of microUSB's pins. The Lightning connector seems to push that to outside of the device i.e. make the right cable/adapter and software and you can adapt to anything without requiring support from specific hardware inside the device. At least that is what he seems to saying and it'll probably take some more analysis and dissection (not to mention actual adapters) to support that assertion.
        makomk 14y ago
    - ChuckMcM 14y ago
      I think the money is an important aspect because Apple uses patents on connectors to extract more money out of their users. The perennial favorite is the Magsafe power adapter connector but realistically ever since that connector Apple has gone out of its way to create a patent wall around their cables. I'm sure they justify this by saying it allows them to control the user experience, after all a shoddy cable really sucks, but its not clear that if you gave people the choice they would choose $29 'reliable' cables over $2.99 'might break' cables. Apple has been pretty aggressive about patenting their connector designs [1]. So sarcastically I'd say this could be in use exactly 20 years from now :-) [1] http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=apple.ASNM.&s2=connector&OS=AN/apple+AND+connector&RS=AN/apple+AND+connector http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sec...
      - alanfalcon 14y ago
        One problem with a $2.99 cable isn't that it "might break," it's that it might zap you with a "potentially-lethal 340 volts" among other less severe but still significant drawbacks (which most people wouldn't ever consider). http://www.arcfn.com/2012/03/inside-cheap-phone-charger-and-why-you.html http://www.arcfn.com/2012/03/inside-cheap-phone-charger-and-...
        dmishe 14y ago
        And apple's charger is actually a very good one http://www.arcfn.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-quality.html http://www.arcfn.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-q...
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
        kalleboo 14y ago
        It's one thing with chargers, and another with cables. Apple's cables are actually worse quality than the cheap ones IMHO, since putting a proper strain relief on the cable violates Apple's design sensibilities.
    - vidarh 14y ago
      I very much doubt having a "real future proof connector" is going to make any practical difference for most users. Having to have different cables from pretty much everyone else, on the other hand, will. In my house there are at least a dozen microUSB cables. There's 2-3 Apple cables. That reflects the relative ratio of devices that use each, and it means charging or connecting anything that requires microUSB is trivial - there's always a cable at hand. There's half a dozen microUSB cables within a one metre radius of where I'm sitting at my desk right now. Won't matter if you're at home and have a nice collection of Apple specific cables. But it is likely to make far more difference for people when they're out travelling for example. Having a "future proof" connector? Not going to matter for anything but a tiny sliver of early adopters who might otherwise need adapters now and again (e.g. MHL adapters for micoUSB now, that are quickly becoming obsolete as TV's etc. start getting MHL support built in)
      - dmishe 14y ago
        Well if 30pin was as future proof, then in theory we would not have a problem with angry people with lots of old accessories right now. And if it as good as they say, then if tomorrow HDMI is totally doomed and there's shiny new HDMI2 standard completely different from HDMI, I will not have to change the phone, apple just needs to release a new cable and possibly software update.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
MrFoof 14y ago
Micro-USB has one tremendously major disadvantage for battery-powered mobile devices: Maximum current. USB 2 has a maximum current of 1.5A while communicating and 5.0A when not. Micro-USB has a maximum current (per spec) of 1.0-1.8A, and the usual rating for most connectors is 1.0A. The result? By switching to Micro-USB, your iDevice will now take significantly longer to charge. (However, keep in mind the iPhone charge adapter is 1.0A, whereas the iPad adapters are 2.1A). So in exchange for a standardized connector, we would have devices that take twice as long to charge. Honestly, that's not a tradeoff 99% people would want to make.
- kens 14y ago
  The new USB 3.0 power delivery spec supports 3A at 20V over micro-USB for potentially 60 Watts delivered via micro-USB and 100W over USB. The idea is to get rid of laptop charger plugs entirely and replace them with USB. A bunch of companies are on this standard, including Dell, Foxconn, HP, Intel, Microsoft, and Nokia. Apple is absent for some reason. This standard will also allow external hard drives, printers, etc to be powered over USB without a separate power plug. This will be an interesting change if the standard catches on. I wonder about the failure mode of 60 watts through micro-USB though - I expect dramatic smoke and flame :-) http://www.usb.org/press/USB_Power_Delivery_Spec_Completion_FINAL.pdf http://www.usb.org/press/USB_Power_Delivery_Spec_Completion_...
  - dialtone 14y ago
    Could the "some reason" be that the USB plug is not a mag-safe plug? I for one would definitely not welcome going back to a different type of power connector.
  - dmishe 14y ago
    Can they use that in magnetic plug?
- bryanlarsen 14y ago
  The original USB spec had a maximum current of 0.5A, which manufacturers like Apple quickly exceeded when it suited them. The spec was then adjusted to follow practice. The same can and will happen with the microUSB spec.

Stupid Apple, if only they have used micro-usb... Update: Ok, sorry, looks like sarcasm is not clear, so here.

by dmishe 14y ago

Stupid Apple, if only they have used micro-usb... Update: Ok, sorry, looks like sarcasm is not clear, so here.

The article kind of nicely sums up why using USB wouldn't work, adaptation to other transport standards being the big point.

bryanlarsen 14y ago
The article explains how micro-usb connectors can be used to connect to both HDMI and display-port. And obviously USB2 can be connected to USB3. All the article is saying is that Lightning could be used to transport USB3, even with only 8 wires. So the only advantages for lightning are that it's reversible, and it makes Apple scads of money.
- huxley 14y ago
  Scads of money for you or me maybe, but --for Apple-- how could it even register as more than a rounding error on their revenue? I'll be interested to see if there are any advantages to Lightning once it is dissected or if it is just a lock-in play.
- taligent 14y ago
  Did you even bother to read the article ? The advantage of Lightning is that it is a REAL future proof connector. Completely generic and separate from any current standard. A connector that could still be in use 10-20+ years from now. And the fact you brought up the money argument just shows you have no idea what it is going on.
  - bryanlarsen 14y ago
    You mean the article that explains how microUSB has become compatible with new standards or the article that explains how Lightning could become compatible with new standards? It seems to me that having done something twice in the past is a better proof of being able to do that something than speculation is.
    - flatline3 14y ago
      microUSB hasn't become compatible with new standards, it has been hacked to allow the pinouts to be repurposed for new standards. The implication of this article is that the Lightening port can be repurposed, without changes to the device's hardware, simply by providing a new cable and software.
      - bryanlarsen 14y ago
        without changes to the device's hardware If the iPhone5 doesn't have internal USB3 or HDMI or DP support, it can't magically gain it through the use of a new cable and new software. It's probable the iPhone6 will support all or most of those, but that's because they changed the device's hardware...
        dmishe 14y ago
        Why not? The new lighting cable with hdmi or dp chip that transcodes data from soc with new software
    - vvhn 14y ago
      From the article "Common to both MHL and MyDP is the need for an additional transmitter (driver) chip as well as a switcher chip that goes back and forth between that and the USB transceivers. This, of course, implies additional space on the device board for these chips, traces and passive components, as well as increased power consumption. You can, of course, put in a micro-HDMI connector and drive that directly, that would save neither space nor power." That's not microUSB becoming compatible - It's having to add hardware inside the device which makes use of microUSB's pins. The Lightning connector seems to push that to outside of the device i.e. make the right cable/adapter and software and you can adapt to anything without requiring support from specific hardware inside the device. At least that is what he seems to saying and it'll probably take some more analysis and dissection (not to mention actual adapters) to support that assertion.
      - makomk 14y ago
  - ChuckMcM 14y ago
    I think the money is an important aspect because Apple uses patents on connectors to extract more money out of their users. The perennial favorite is the Magsafe power adapter connector but realistically ever since that connector Apple has gone out of its way to create a patent wall around their cables. I'm sure they justify this by saying it allows them to control the user experience, after all a shoddy cable really sucks, but its not clear that if you gave people the choice they would choose $29 'reliable' cables over $2.99 'might break' cables. Apple has been pretty aggressive about patenting their connector designs [1]. So sarcastically I'd say this could be in use exactly 20 years from now :-) [1] http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=apple.ASNM.&s2=connector&OS=AN/apple+AND+connector&RS=AN/apple+AND+connector http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sec...
    - alanfalcon 14y ago
      One problem with a $2.99 cable isn't that it "might break," it's that it might zap you with a "potentially-lethal 340 volts" among other less severe but still significant drawbacks (which most people wouldn't ever consider). http://www.arcfn.com/2012/03/inside-cheap-phone-charger-and-why-you.html http://www.arcfn.com/2012/03/inside-cheap-phone-charger-and-...
      - dmishe 14y ago
        And apple's charger is actually a very good one http://www.arcfn.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-quality.html http://www.arcfn.com/2012/05/apple-iphone-charger-teardown-q...
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - kalleboo 14y ago
        It's one thing with chargers, and another with cables. Apple's cables are actually worse quality than the cheap ones IMHO, since putting a proper strain relief on the cable violates Apple's design sensibilities.
  - vidarh 14y ago
    I very much doubt having a "real future proof connector" is going to make any practical difference for most users. Having to have different cables from pretty much everyone else, on the other hand, will. In my house there are at least a dozen microUSB cables. There's 2-3 Apple cables. That reflects the relative ratio of devices that use each, and it means charging or connecting anything that requires microUSB is trivial - there's always a cable at hand. There's half a dozen microUSB cables within a one metre radius of where I'm sitting at my desk right now. Won't matter if you're at home and have a nice collection of Apple specific cables. But it is likely to make far more difference for people when they're out travelling for example. Having a "future proof" connector? Not going to matter for anything but a tiny sliver of early adopters who might otherwise need adapters now and again (e.g. MHL adapters for micoUSB now, that are quickly becoming obsolete as TV's etc. start getting MHL support built in)
    - dmishe 14y ago
      Well if 30pin was as future proof, then in theory we would not have a problem with angry people with lots of old accessories right now. And if it as good as they say, then if tomorrow HDMI is totally doomed and there's shiny new HDMI2 standard completely different from HDMI, I will not have to change the phone, apple just needs to release a new cable and possibly software update.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

MrFoof 14y ago

Micro-USB has one tremendously major disadvantage for battery-powered mobile devices: Maximum current. USB 2 has a maximum current of 1.5A while communicating and 5.0A when not. Micro-USB has a maximum current (per spec) of 1.0-1.8A, and the usual rating for most connectors is 1.0A. The result? By switching to Micro-USB, your iDevice will now take significantly longer to charge. (However, keep in mind the iPhone charge adapter is 1.0A, whereas the iPad adapters are 2.1A). So in exchange for a standardized connector, we would have devices that take twice as long to charge. Honestly, that's not a tradeoff 99% people would want to make.

kens 14y ago
The new USB 3.0 power delivery spec supports 3A at 20V over micro-USB for potentially 60 Watts delivered via micro-USB and 100W over USB. The idea is to get rid of laptop charger plugs entirely and replace them with USB. A bunch of companies are on this standard, including Dell, Foxconn, HP, Intel, Microsoft, and Nokia. Apple is absent for some reason. This standard will also allow external hard drives, printers, etc to be powered over USB without a separate power plug. This will be an interesting change if the standard catches on. I wonder about the failure mode of 60 watts through micro-USB though - I expect dramatic smoke and flame :-) http://www.usb.org/press/USB_Power_Delivery_Spec_Completion_FINAL.pdf http://www.usb.org/press/USB_Power_Delivery_Spec_Completion_...
- dialtone 14y ago
  Could the "some reason" be that the USB plug is not a mag-safe plug? I for one would definitely not welcome going back to a different type of power connector.
- dmishe 14y ago
  Can they use that in magnetic plug?
bryanlarsen 14y ago
The original USB spec had a maximum current of 0.5A, which manufacturers like Apple quickly exceeded when it suited them. The spec was then adjusted to follow practice. The same can and will happen with the microUSB spec.