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How are these produced? I assume they're not actually digging a giant trench and taking a section, but are the drawings based on measurements of a specific ind

How are these produced? I assume they're not actually digging a giant trench and taking a section, but are the drawings based on measurements of a specific individual in some way? In any case, very cool to have such a collection.

throwup238 1y ago
They usually are. It’s a process akin to archaeology where they have to carefully wash away the dirt from the root system, measuring as they go. The problem with this method is that it's hard to reconstruct the entire 3d structure of bigger plants like trees so a lot of the root drawings on the site don’t accurately show how deep they go. It’s much easier with small plants where the researcher can control the soil used. Modern methods like xray CT or ground penetrating radar can do it nondestructively in the field but they’re usually expensive to set up compared to just sending some grad students to dig.
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  I had assumed they had grown the plant between two vertical, parallel panes of glass.
  - imp0cat 1y ago
    That would probably produce a distorted image of the root system.
    - immibis 1y ago
      On the contrary - I think you'd get an accurate image of a very distorted root system!
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > you'd get an accurate image of a very distorted root system At the very least, you've taken a 3D system and reduced it to 2D. Additionally, you're exposing not only the root system but the entire microbiome around them to light and, almost certainly, unless you were incredibly meticulous about sealing, oxygen.
      - imp0cat 1y ago
        Me fail English? That's unpossible! :) But yeah, that's what I mean.
  - kqr 1y ago
    Some of the images (at least one I saw of a tree) had section drawings both from the side and the top, so no!
- garbagewoman 1y ago
  By “usually”, have you any examples of what led to that conclusion?
  - morsch 1y ago
    https://images.wur.nl/digital/collection/coll13/ https://images.wur.nl/digital/collection/coll13/ https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1505&context=agronomyfacpub https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1...
Karliss 1y ago
Collection history page has a photo for part of the process https://images.wur.nl/digital/collection/coll13 https://images.wur.nl/digital/collection/coll13
- lelandfe 1y ago
  Bit higher quality: https://imgur.com/a/MPpogJv https://imgur.com/a/MPpogJv
  - brettermeier 1y ago
    The image says it took 6 persons 5 days to expose the roots of "Pinus cembra".
paulgerhardt 1y ago
A few ways. This particular project is doing it by hand and very tedious. The traditional way of transplanting large trees while keeping the root system intact is with a hydrovac. A machine the size of a jet engine that liquifies the soil with water and then vacuums it up. [1] More recent developments have tried using an AirSpade which doesn’t use water but compressed air to blow apart and then suck the soil without making a slurry which is better as the soil can be redeposited in the same hole rather than discarded[2] [1] https://youtube.com/shorts/HinwD5-Q2xA https://youtube.com/shorts/HinwD5-Q2xA [2] https://youtu.be/B3XomJ6Z1I4 https://youtu.be/B3XomJ6Z1I4
- oasisbob 1y ago
  I'm not sure that either of these methods count as traditional. Air spades in particular are primarily used for rootwork, not transplanting. Bareroot methods are used for smaller trees. Bare rooting leaves roots in a very vulnerable state, so doing it on larger trees you intend to move and keep alive is a serious logistical challenge. The most traditional method I can think of is "ball and burlap" where root balls are cut free in the field, and retrieved later in the season for final packaging.
deleted 1y ago
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throwup238 1y ago

They usually are. It’s a process akin to archaeology where they have to carefully wash away the dirt from the root system, measuring as they go. The problem with this method is that it's hard to reconstruct the entire 3d structure of bigger plants like trees so a lot of the root drawings on the site don’t accurately show how deep they go. It’s much easier with small plants where the researcher can control the soil used. Modern methods like xray CT or ground penetrating radar can do it nondestructively in the field but they’re usually expensive to set up compared to just sending some grad students to dig.

JKCalhoun 1y ago
I had assumed they had grown the plant between two vertical, parallel panes of glass.
- imp0cat 1y ago
  That would probably produce a distorted image of the root system.
  - immibis 1y ago
    On the contrary - I think you'd get an accurate image of a very distorted root system!
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > you'd get an accurate image of a very distorted root system At the very least, you've taken a 3D system and reduced it to 2D. Additionally, you're exposing not only the root system but the entire microbiome around them to light and, almost certainly, unless you were incredibly meticulous about sealing, oxygen.
    - imp0cat 1y ago
      Me fail English? That's unpossible! :) But yeah, that's what I mean.
- kqr 1y ago
  Some of the images (at least one I saw of a tree) had section drawings both from the side and the top, so no!
garbagewoman 1y ago
By “usually”, have you any examples of what led to that conclusion?
- morsch 1y ago
  https://images.wur.nl/digital/collection/coll13/ https://images.wur.nl/digital/collection/coll13/ https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1505&context=agronomyfacpub https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1...

Karliss 1y ago

Collection history page has a photo for part of the process https://images.wur.nl/digital/collection/coll13 https://images.wur.nl/digital/collection/coll13

lelandfe 1y ago
Bit higher quality: https://imgur.com/a/MPpogJv https://imgur.com/a/MPpogJv
- brettermeier 1y ago
  The image says it took 6 persons 5 days to expose the roots of "Pinus cembra".

paulgerhardt 1y ago

A few ways. This particular project is doing it by hand and very tedious. The traditional way of transplanting large trees while keeping the root system intact is with a hydrovac. A machine the size of a jet engine that liquifies the soil with water and then vacuums it up. [1] More recent developments have tried using an AirSpade which doesn’t use water but compressed air to blow apart and then suck the soil without making a slurry which is better as the soil can be redeposited in the same hole rather than discarded[2] [1] https://youtube.com/shorts/HinwD5-Q2xA https://youtube.com/shorts/HinwD5-Q2xA [2] https://youtu.be/B3XomJ6Z1I4 https://youtu.be/B3XomJ6Z1I4

oasisbob 1y ago
I'm not sure that either of these methods count as traditional. Air spades in particular are primarily used for rootwork, not transplanting. Bareroot methods are used for smaller trees. Bare rooting leaves roots in a very vulnerable state, so doing it on larger trees you intend to move and keep alive is a serious logistical challenge. The most traditional method I can think of is "ball and burlap" where root balls are cut free in the field, and retrieved later in the season for final packaging.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]