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Tesla is a bad example here because it was the best by a large margin 5 years ago, and it more or less stagnated (especially in markets where FSD is not availab

Tesla is a bad example here because it was the best by a large margin 5 years ago, and it more or less stagnated (especially in markets where FSD is not available). But - at least in Europe - the cheapest Tesla you could buy 5 years ago was over 50 grands, now you can have one for 35k with no subsides, depending on the market. This alone has a giant effect on the second-hand market (of Tesla, which again was the dominant brand years ago so it's also the dominant second-hand brand)

bryanrasmussen 1y ago
I thought nobody wanted Teslas in EU because of Elon Musk? I wouldn't expect it to be the dominant second-hand brand.
- mirekrusin 1y ago
  There are a lot of them on the roads in Europe.
- wafflemaker 1y ago
  Tesla is still the cool geek car. And geeks care more about tech and gadgets than politics.
- darkwater 1y ago
  That drove down new cars sales in a few countries indeed. Also there are viable alternatives for new buyer's (although Tesla is still probably the best value for money). But the second-hand market is different and if you want a second-hand EV that you can actually use for long trips, Tesla is the only option. Yes, there are people traveling with Kona or Leaf but personally I would not do it.
- SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
  There are still lots of Teslas on the roads where I am, relative to to other EVs. Cars are big expensive assets, they don't vanish, usually. Even if you now regret the purchase, you may be stuck with it for a few years. For any given brand, the number of vehicles on the road isn't a function of the brand's popularity this quarter. Its the sum of popularities over the last decade or more. So, loss of reputation takes a long time to feed through. And people wanting to unload them won't make them less prevalent on second-hand markets, quite the opposite. But also, the % of EVs that I see that are Teslas is slowly declining, as other brands proliferate and the EV market gets larger.
  - matt-attack 1y ago
    Tesla sold close to 1/2 million calls LAST QUARTER. Their record quarter. They’ve not slowing down.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
      OK, but that doesn't invalidate anything that I said. I discussed what I see, that's inherently local not global. There could be places where Tesla sales are slowing down, even if they're net growing globally. Local is London, UK for me, btw. I discussed Tesla's as a % of EVs total. A brand such as Tesla could still be e.g. growing sales at 5% per year, but if the EV market is growing at 10% per year, they're still becoming a smaller % of the total number of EVs on the road. The more interesting trend to me is the proliferation of many different EV brands. Time was when Tesla was the only EV. Then there were a few challengers. Now it's all-in from traditional German brands such as BMW and VW, The Korean Hyundai-Kia group have a lot of new models, through to BYD and the other Chinese newcomers. Even Toyota and Skoda are there now. I think that something like this Tesla "relative decline even as sales grow" is happening, and this is a natural consequence of the EV market diversifying and maturing. If you really want an EV it doesn't have to be either Tesla or Nissan Leaf any more. There are lots of options and ruling out one specific brand for whatever reason is not going to prevent that. If you want records, I'll note that 1) The largest EV maker by worldwide volume is now BYD and 2) BYD is pushing hard into the UK market, and others. It's early days for them in the UK, more so for the other Chinese newcomers. I'm sure you can understand local growth vs. global growth when you look at BYD: They are number 1 globally, but have negligible EV sales in the USA. And BYD being number one globally underscores that, in a growing market, Tesla can have a record quarter and still be losing % share of the total market. "Chinese EV giant BYD sees UK sales soar" : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w5jl2jgqwo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w5jl2jgqwo
- keybored 1y ago
  People think that people generalize with political labels because they say things like “liberals are not buying Tesla’s because of Trump”. But when it comes to the EU they just say that everyone acts like the same kind of person.

bryanrasmussen 1y ago

I thought nobody wanted Teslas in EU because of Elon Musk? I wouldn't expect it to be the dominant second-hand brand.

mirekrusin 1y ago
There are a lot of them on the roads in Europe.
wafflemaker 1y ago
Tesla is still the cool geek car. And geeks care more about tech and gadgets than politics.
darkwater 1y ago
That drove down new cars sales in a few countries indeed. Also there are viable alternatives for new buyer's (although Tesla is still probably the best value for money). But the second-hand market is different and if you want a second-hand EV that you can actually use for long trips, Tesla is the only option. Yes, there are people traveling with Kona or Leaf but personally I would not do it.
SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
There are still lots of Teslas on the roads where I am, relative to to other EVs. Cars are big expensive assets, they don't vanish, usually. Even if you now regret the purchase, you may be stuck with it for a few years. For any given brand, the number of vehicles on the road isn't a function of the brand's popularity this quarter. Its the sum of popularities over the last decade or more. So, loss of reputation takes a long time to feed through. And people wanting to unload them won't make them less prevalent on second-hand markets, quite the opposite. But also, the % of EVs that I see that are Teslas is slowly declining, as other brands proliferate and the EV market gets larger.
- matt-attack 1y ago
  Tesla sold close to 1/2 million calls LAST QUARTER. Their record quarter. They’ve not slowing down.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
    OK, but that doesn't invalidate anything that I said. I discussed what I see, that's inherently local not global. There could be places where Tesla sales are slowing down, even if they're net growing globally. Local is London, UK for me, btw. I discussed Tesla's as a % of EVs total. A brand such as Tesla could still be e.g. growing sales at 5% per year, but if the EV market is growing at 10% per year, they're still becoming a smaller % of the total number of EVs on the road. The more interesting trend to me is the proliferation of many different EV brands. Time was when Tesla was the only EV. Then there were a few challengers. Now it's all-in from traditional German brands such as BMW and VW, The Korean Hyundai-Kia group have a lot of new models, through to BYD and the other Chinese newcomers. Even Toyota and Skoda are there now. I think that something like this Tesla "relative decline even as sales grow" is happening, and this is a natural consequence of the EV market diversifying and maturing. If you really want an EV it doesn't have to be either Tesla or Nissan Leaf any more. There are lots of options and ruling out one specific brand for whatever reason is not going to prevent that. If you want records, I'll note that 1) The largest EV maker by worldwide volume is now BYD and 2) BYD is pushing hard into the UK market, and others. It's early days for them in the UK, more so for the other Chinese newcomers. I'm sure you can understand local growth vs. global growth when you look at BYD: They are number 1 globally, but have negligible EV sales in the USA. And BYD being number one globally underscores that, in a growing market, Tesla can have a record quarter and still be losing % share of the total market. "Chinese EV giant BYD sees UK sales soar" : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w5jl2jgqwo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w5jl2jgqwo
keybored 1y ago
People think that people generalize with political labels because they say things like “liberals are not buying Tesla’s because of Trump”. But when it comes to the EU they just say that everyone acts like the same kind of person.