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I'm really starting to think that Data Centers should be required to invest in the electricity generation to cover their own usage in order to build/expand. No

I'm really starting to think that Data Centers should be required to invest in the electricity generation to cover their own usage in order to build/expand. Not just pass the cost onto the local utilities, but actually build out power generation (solar, wind, etc) and maybe even require in excess of 100% generation.

sdwr 1y ago
Aren't utilities better equipped to plan, build, and operate sources of electricity? Don't they already pass the cost of that onto consumers?
- tracker1 1y ago
  In a way, usually utilities are state controlled and there are different levels of funding for expansion projects, as well as variations to levels of efficiency, corruption or manipulation. I'm perfectly fine if to satisfy that requirement the Data Center operator pays the Utility Company for the cost of expanding existing infrastructure, but I want those expenses more direct to the specific consumer (data center) likely to consume more energy in a day than most of the residents of the city do via taxes or direct fees against increased demands.
  - burnt-resistor 1y ago
    > usually utilities are state controlled This is not even close to how anything works. There's some state regulation but most GSOs/TSOs/DSOs/IPPs are private companies, SGEs, or nonprofit co-ops. All RTOs/ISOs are nonprofits but own no grid assets.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- estimator7292 1y ago
  It's cheaper to raise rates for consumers than it is to build new generation capacity
- bcrl 1y ago
  Utilities require long term planning. A 22% increase in 1 year is an extreme outlier by any normal grid planning standard. Where I live, the high point in the last 5 years was a 2.8% annual increase. ( See https://www.ieso.ca/power-data/demand-overview/historical-demand https://www.ieso.ca/power-data/demand-overview/historical-de... ) Building large amounts of new capacity takes years to decades. If hyperscalers keep pushing that kind of increase they will eventually learn that the supply and cost of energy becomes a limiting factor. When demand outstrips supply, prices go bonkers and rolling blackouts become a fact of life. See the California grid crisis back in 2000-2001, although in that case the supply shortage was the result of blatant market manipulation by Enron.
burnt-resistor 1y ago
In most areas, large commercial customers get preferential lower rates than residential customers do. So it follows that hyperscalers are likely to get even lower rates and neighbors of previously rural/small towns can "enjoy" the constant noise, utility rate increases, and tax increases to subsidize bitcoin mining and AI pipedreams.

sdwr 1y ago

Aren't utilities better equipped to plan, build, and operate sources of electricity? Don't they already pass the cost of that onto consumers?

tracker1 1y ago
In a way, usually utilities are state controlled and there are different levels of funding for expansion projects, as well as variations to levels of efficiency, corruption or manipulation. I'm perfectly fine if to satisfy that requirement the Data Center operator pays the Utility Company for the cost of expanding existing infrastructure, but I want those expenses more direct to the specific consumer (data center) likely to consume more energy in a day than most of the residents of the city do via taxes or direct fees against increased demands.
- burnt-resistor 1y ago
  > usually utilities are state controlled This is not even close to how anything works. There's some state regulation but most GSOs/TSOs/DSOs/IPPs are private companies, SGEs, or nonprofit co-ops. All RTOs/ISOs are nonprofits but own no grid assets.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
estimator7292 1y ago
It's cheaper to raise rates for consumers than it is to build new generation capacity
bcrl 1y ago
Utilities require long term planning. A 22% increase in 1 year is an extreme outlier by any normal grid planning standard. Where I live, the high point in the last 5 years was a 2.8% annual increase. ( See https://www.ieso.ca/power-data/demand-overview/historical-demand https://www.ieso.ca/power-data/demand-overview/historical-de... ) Building large amounts of new capacity takes years to decades. If hyperscalers keep pushing that kind of increase they will eventually learn that the supply and cost of energy becomes a limiting factor. When demand outstrips supply, prices go bonkers and rolling blackouts become a fact of life. See the California grid crisis back in 2000-2001, although in that case the supply shortage was the result of blatant market manipulation by Enron.

burnt-resistor 1y ago

In most areas, large commercial customers get preferential lower rates than residential customers do. So it follows that hyperscalers are likely to get even lower rates and neighbors of previously rural/small towns can "enjoy" the constant noise, utility rate increases, and tax increases to subsidize bitcoin mining and AI pipedreams.