12 ms·

Riot breaks out at Foxconn's Taiyuan plant

99 points by llambda 14y ago

FredericJ 14y ago
Will the iPhone 5 production be affected ? Probably I guess
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- shimon_e 14y ago
  No. If any affect was caused it would be made up with overtime in the next shift. If they need to they would pay bonuses. The few dollars extra verses a loss in sales due to no stock in stores...
geori 14y ago
Steve would never have let this happen.
- samstave 14y ago
  Meaning he would never let this news hit the media?
hmottestad 14y ago
The whole Foxconn world reminds me of history lessons at primary school where we learned about the industrial revolution in the UK. Back then whole families lived and worked at a factory, the children too, before the onset of child labor laws. Then one after the other factories became more machine centric and less labor intensive before they started moving east and the west became richer and less dependent on creating physical products. Now we have become acclimatized to cheap production in the east at a time of great segregation between the rich and the poor. And protests and riots will have to continue until we realize that our luxury lives are still dependent on 10, 100, maybe 1000 other people who have to live in poverty.
- ktizo 14y ago
  Also when we outsource jobs to other countries, presumably given that the point of doing so is that they have a lower cost of living, therefore the company saves money. So presumably they could be paid and treated really well and would still be a lot cheaper. It is one thing to move production to save money from wage differences, and quite another to then turn a blind eye to the working conditions of your new employees under the guise of it being the suppliers problem. Also, it is worth remembering that although Apple is a major customer of Foxconn's and has some of the most leverage with them (which is why it is really is worth annoying Apple about this), they are hardly the only people who make use of Foxconn and that there are also a lot worse places than Foxconn that do not have such a strong light shone upon them, and that are usually forgotten quickly even when they make the news.
  - shimon_e 14y ago
    The Chinese have a mob mentality. They themselves don't even know what they are rioting about, most the time. The internet is learning that it is about an accident in between a guard and a worker at 10pm. Trust me, the internet is learning this fact before a majority of the rioters are. If you can really call them rioters, as it is more like a 2000 man parade with about 5 people actually rioting (see the video). No one is in uniform so it is safe to assume these are off shift workers. The last riot at Foxconn started with a dispute in between a worker and a local restaurant owner. Ended with a 1000 man riot. Nothing to do with Foxconn worker rights. Such riots can't be equivocated with workers flighting for greater rights. They aren't. They want more money. Most the disputes are about broken promises of overtime work, as the workers make their best money from overtime. The workers don't live anywhere near the factories. They just work there for a few years to take money back to the villages where their families and friends live. They want money to improve families living conditions, not the factory that they don't give a damn about. They would trade factory conditions for more money almost any time, as the factory conditions are just temporary for them. They want to reach their goal of saving $X, go home, and enjoy their lives with their family and friends. What I am saying is not universal in China. The Chinese government controls migration and in some locations factories can only employ local people. In such factories labour costs are much higher and workers do receive much better working conditions. This story is not about such a factory.
shimon_e 14y ago
Chinese riots are like Chinese night clubs. Boring and dull. Example: Anti-Japan riots. 1000s of Chinese. One Lexus. Barely any damage even using hammers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKnuILXFVZI&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKnuILXFVZI&feature=relat...
scarmig 14y ago
This is a very relevant and timely essay: http://jacobinmag.com/2012/08/china-in-revolt/ http://jacobinmag.com/2012/08/china-in-revolt/ Extremely interesting, especially if you enjoy reading left perspectives on global labor issues. The tldr of it is that Chinese workers aren't simply exploited, culturally-destined to obedience, and at the mercies of Western oligarchs and do-gooders: they're actively molding and negotiating their own rights and fates, though they still face their own unique challenges.
- keithpeter 14y ago
  "Minimum wages are going up by double digits in cities around the country and many workers are receiving social insurance payments for the first time." - from linked article The article linked to by parent is interesting, although the vocabulary is leftist. You know how Western economies generate around 70 to 80% of gdp from activity within their borders (exceptions being Canada and NZ because of extraction industries). When China gets near that percentage, will they need this cheap assembly and fabrication work?
Flam 14y ago
How easy it would be to fly in, secretly meet with dozens of these employees, tell them to spread the word that if they riot they will each get a sum of money, and watch the bad publicity grow.
shimon_e 14y ago
According to the latest reports surfacing it started with a fight in between 10 workers from different production lines involving a guard somehow. It is already mid day in China and no one know what the exact story is. Maybe more accurate to call this a group fight with a few thousand spectators. Like I said earlier comments earlier most people seemed to be pretty calm.
jdietrich 14y ago
As always, it is necessary to point out that Foxconn has 1.2 million employees, most of whom live in company-owned accommodation. Foxconn's HR issues are in many ways better understood by regarding them as a small country rather than a company. With a population of 1.2 million, all sorts of very unusual things become statistical inevitabilities. By any reasonable measure, Foxconn is in fact exceptionally safe and peaceful. On the topic of whether Foxconn workers are underpaid, they are clearly not - they perform work of exceptionally low value, most of which is performed by hand for no reason other than that Chinese peasants are cheaper than machines. Foxconn operates on very low margins and earns only a tiny fraction of the retail price of the devices they manufacture. The value in consumer electronics is primarily R&D; Without the investment of hundreds of billions of dollars in microelectronics research, these workers would still be peasants and their American and European counterparts would be working 10-hour shifts manufacturing vacuum tubes and phonograph needles.

99 points by llambda 14y ago

FredericJ 14y ago

Will the iPhone 5 production be affected ? Probably I guess

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
shimon_e 14y ago
No. If any affect was caused it would be made up with overtime in the next shift. If they need to they would pay bonuses. The few dollars extra verses a loss in sales due to no stock in stores...

geori 14y ago

Steve would never have let this happen.

samstave 14y ago
Meaning he would never let this news hit the media?

hmottestad 14y ago

The whole Foxconn world reminds me of history lessons at primary school where we learned about the industrial revolution in the UK. Back then whole families lived and worked at a factory, the children too, before the onset of child labor laws. Then one after the other factories became more machine centric and less labor intensive before they started moving east and the west became richer and less dependent on creating physical products. Now we have become acclimatized to cheap production in the east at a time of great segregation between the rich and the poor. And protests and riots will have to continue until we realize that our luxury lives are still dependent on 10, 100, maybe 1000 other people who have to live in poverty.

ktizo 14y ago
Also when we outsource jobs to other countries, presumably given that the point of doing so is that they have a lower cost of living, therefore the company saves money. So presumably they could be paid and treated really well and would still be a lot cheaper. It is one thing to move production to save money from wage differences, and quite another to then turn a blind eye to the working conditions of your new employees under the guise of it being the suppliers problem. Also, it is worth remembering that although Apple is a major customer of Foxconn's and has some of the most leverage with them (which is why it is really is worth annoying Apple about this), they are hardly the only people who make use of Foxconn and that there are also a lot worse places than Foxconn that do not have such a strong light shone upon them, and that are usually forgotten quickly even when they make the news.
- shimon_e 14y ago
  The Chinese have a mob mentality. They themselves don't even know what they are rioting about, most the time. The internet is learning that it is about an accident in between a guard and a worker at 10pm. Trust me, the internet is learning this fact before a majority of the rioters are. If you can really call them rioters, as it is more like a 2000 man parade with about 5 people actually rioting (see the video). No one is in uniform so it is safe to assume these are off shift workers. The last riot at Foxconn started with a dispute in between a worker and a local restaurant owner. Ended with a 1000 man riot. Nothing to do with Foxconn worker rights. Such riots can't be equivocated with workers flighting for greater rights. They aren't. They want more money. Most the disputes are about broken promises of overtime work, as the workers make their best money from overtime. The workers don't live anywhere near the factories. They just work there for a few years to take money back to the villages where their families and friends live. They want money to improve families living conditions, not the factory that they don't give a damn about. They would trade factory conditions for more money almost any time, as the factory conditions are just temporary for them. They want to reach their goal of saving $X, go home, and enjoy their lives with their family and friends. What I am saying is not universal in China. The Chinese government controls migration and in some locations factories can only employ local people. In such factories labour costs are much higher and workers do receive much better working conditions. This story is not about such a factory.

shimon_e 14y ago

Chinese riots are like Chinese night clubs. Boring and dull. Example: Anti-Japan riots. 1000s of Chinese. One Lexus. Barely any damage even using hammers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKnuILXFVZI&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKnuILXFVZI&feature=relat...

scarmig 14y ago

This is a very relevant and timely essay: http://jacobinmag.com/2012/08/china-in-revolt/ http://jacobinmag.com/2012/08/china-in-revolt/ Extremely interesting, especially if you enjoy reading left perspectives on global labor issues. The tldr of it is that Chinese workers aren't simply exploited, culturally-destined to obedience, and at the mercies of Western oligarchs and do-gooders: they're actively molding and negotiating their own rights and fates, though they still face their own unique challenges.

keithpeter 14y ago
"Minimum wages are going up by double digits in cities around the country and many workers are receiving social insurance payments for the first time." - from linked article The article linked to by parent is interesting, although the vocabulary is leftist. You know how Western economies generate around 70 to 80% of gdp from activity within their borders (exceptions being Canada and NZ because of extraction industries). When China gets near that percentage, will they need this cheap assembly and fabrication work?

Flam 14y ago

How easy it would be to fly in, secretly meet with dozens of these employees, tell them to spread the word that if they riot they will each get a sum of money, and watch the bad publicity grow.

shimon_e 14y ago

According to the latest reports surfacing it started with a fight in between 10 workers from different production lines involving a guard somehow. It is already mid day in China and no one know what the exact story is. Maybe more accurate to call this a group fight with a few thousand spectators. Like I said earlier comments earlier most people seemed to be pretty calm.

jdietrich 14y ago

As always, it is necessary to point out that Foxconn has 1.2 million employees, most of whom live in company-owned accommodation. Foxconn's HR issues are in many ways better understood by regarding them as a small country rather than a company. With a population of 1.2 million, all sorts of very unusual things become statistical inevitabilities. By any reasonable measure, Foxconn is in fact exceptionally safe and peaceful. On the topic of whether Foxconn workers are underpaid, they are clearly not - they perform work of exceptionally low value, most of which is performed by hand for no reason other than that Chinese peasants are cheaper than machines. Foxconn operates on very low margins and earns only a tiny fraction of the retail price of the devices they manufacture. The value in consumer electronics is primarily R&D; Without the investment of hundreds of billions of dollars in microelectronics research, these workers would still be peasants and their American and European counterparts would be working 10-hour shifts manufacturing vacuum tubes and phonograph needles.