4 ms·

I hate that all our favorite sci-fi books were used as manuals for what to build next, instead of trying to avoid creating those futures in our real lives.

dv_dt 1y ago
Read more Solarpunk? From a writers standpoint though, I suspect its easier to weave a dramatic plot through a dystopic background than a more optimistic one
- red-iron-pine 1y ago
  all happy futures are the same, all terrible ones are terrible in their own, unique way
  - rollcat 1y ago
    Hard disagree. Yes, it's easier to captivate attention by evoking primal instincts - avoid predator, find food, reproduce, etc. These stories stick around in your head, the memetic survivors. They are easier to feed off. But "Happy" doesn't mean a perfect utopia. The entire "classic" Star Trek is set in a utopian future, yet with plenty of space for intrigue. Usually a commentary on a contemporary problem, with a "happy ending" that's supposed to show us the road to a better solution, rather than a bland "forever after". Even "First Contact" (a zombie/survival horror) is spun around the theme of "this is the history/future that we're saving". Bonus: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq4QY0LGOiI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq4QY0LGOiI>
- IAmBroom 1y ago
  "It's about a family with a robot helper, that doesn't go beserk, and eventually recreates their late grandmother's casserole recipe using AI. It's a guaranteed bestseller!"
  - james_marks 1y ago
    You're joking, but you're not far off from Murderbot by Martha Wells, which has done phenomenally well. Swapping grandma's casserole recipe for fighting mega-corps might be the big difference.
cyanydeez 1y ago
Whats important to understand about the indeterminacy of peoples minds is that if we could read each others thoughts, we would be vulnerable. Now with the written word and how seemingly determinant people are in large numbers we are again super vulnerable.
andrepd 1y ago
Many people (including in this website) are hard at work creating the torment nexus.
- CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
  No doubt. The question is, is that the explicit goal, and if so, why? And if not, don't they consider the effects of their actions, if they aren't, why?
  - moffkalast 1y ago
    The torment nexus is very interesting from a research standpoint and very profitable for investors. There's many military and industrial applications.
    - red-iron-pine 1y ago
      the torment nexus can't torment you specifically, you're overreacting. i am totally a real person and use the nexus every day to improve my productivity -- it is a simple and intuitive tool.
  - Mtinie 1y ago
    At this point, the path from what these teams of people are building to dystopian outcomes is well-mapped. Whether it’s an explicit goal is irrelevant because if you can reasonably foresee the harm and proceed anyway, you’re making a conscious choice to enable it.
  - nxor 1y ago
    Gotta bring home that stable paycheck (not justifying it)
    - Mtinie 1y ago
      You actually don’t. Technologists have more leverage than most workers. There’s no shortage of jobs that don’t require building surveillance states or engagement addiction engines.
bentcorner 1y ago
A lot of aspirational tech was consumed by builders. I dare you to find a nerd who has watched Star Trek and hasn't once thought "wouldn't it be cool if I could interact with the computer with my voice", or "using touchscreens for everything looks so futuristic"? And yet here we are complaining that our phones are over-listening to us and our cars no longer have knobs.
rkomorn 1y ago
Personally, I think it's the other way around. Sci-fi writers understood both what technology could create in the future (and what would be desirable), and also understood how people abuse power and the tools available to them to stay in power (or gain more). In other words: they predicted the future, more than they inspired it. IMO, that also makes their writing that much more interesting.
- CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
  Surprisingly, I never considered that, and agree that it makes the writing more interesting, I'm gonna keep this in mind for future stories. Thanks a lot for sharing that :)
  - rkomorn 1y ago
    Relatedly, somewhat, I've been reading a lot of 19th century French literature (because I'm French and because my sister is a literature teacher who's been "assigning" me stuff to read). It has been somewhat shocking to see how relevant the writing is seen through a 21st century lenses. Whether it's how media works, how cliques of people function, etc. It truly feels timeless in a way that I've found very surprising. It also very much supports notions that people don't change even if means and methods do.

dv_dt 1y ago

Read more Solarpunk? From a writers standpoint though, I suspect its easier to weave a dramatic plot through a dystopic background than a more optimistic one

red-iron-pine 1y ago
all happy futures are the same, all terrible ones are terrible in their own, unique way
- rollcat 1y ago
  Hard disagree. Yes, it's easier to captivate attention by evoking primal instincts - avoid predator, find food, reproduce, etc. These stories stick around in your head, the memetic survivors. They are easier to feed off. But "Happy" doesn't mean a perfect utopia. The entire "classic" Star Trek is set in a utopian future, yet with plenty of space for intrigue. Usually a commentary on a contemporary problem, with a "happy ending" that's supposed to show us the road to a better solution, rather than a bland "forever after". Even "First Contact" (a zombie/survival horror) is spun around the theme of "this is the history/future that we're saving". Bonus: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq4QY0LGOiI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq4QY0LGOiI>
IAmBroom 1y ago
"It's about a family with a robot helper, that doesn't go beserk, and eventually recreates their late grandmother's casserole recipe using AI. It's a guaranteed bestseller!"
- james_marks 1y ago
  You're joking, but you're not far off from Murderbot by Martha Wells, which has done phenomenally well. Swapping grandma's casserole recipe for fighting mega-corps might be the big difference.

cyanydeez 1y ago

Whats important to understand about the indeterminacy of peoples minds is that if we could read each others thoughts, we would be vulnerable. Now with the written word and how seemingly determinant people are in large numbers we are again super vulnerable.

andrepd 1y ago

Many people (including in this website) are hard at work creating the torment nexus.

CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
No doubt. The question is, is that the explicit goal, and if so, why? And if not, don't they consider the effects of their actions, if they aren't, why?
- moffkalast 1y ago
  The torment nexus is very interesting from a research standpoint and very profitable for investors. There's many military and industrial applications.
  - red-iron-pine 1y ago
    the torment nexus can't torment you specifically, you're overreacting. i am totally a real person and use the nexus every day to improve my productivity -- it is a simple and intuitive tool.
- Mtinie 1y ago
  At this point, the path from what these teams of people are building to dystopian outcomes is well-mapped. Whether it’s an explicit goal is irrelevant because if you can reasonably foresee the harm and proceed anyway, you’re making a conscious choice to enable it.
- nxor 1y ago
  Gotta bring home that stable paycheck (not justifying it)
  - Mtinie 1y ago
    You actually don’t. Technologists have more leverage than most workers. There’s no shortage of jobs that don’t require building surveillance states or engagement addiction engines.

bentcorner 1y ago

A lot of aspirational tech was consumed by builders. I dare you to find a nerd who has watched Star Trek and hasn't once thought "wouldn't it be cool if I could interact with the computer with my voice", or "using touchscreens for everything looks so futuristic"? And yet here we are complaining that our phones are over-listening to us and our cars no longer have knobs.

rkomorn 1y ago

Personally, I think it's the other way around. Sci-fi writers understood both what technology could create in the future (and what would be desirable), and also understood how people abuse power and the tools available to them to stay in power (or gain more). In other words: they predicted the future, more than they inspired it. IMO, that also makes their writing that much more interesting.

CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
Surprisingly, I never considered that, and agree that it makes the writing more interesting, I'm gonna keep this in mind for future stories. Thanks a lot for sharing that :)
- rkomorn 1y ago
  Relatedly, somewhat, I've been reading a lot of 19th century French literature (because I'm French and because my sister is a literature teacher who's been "assigning" me stuff to read). It has been somewhat shocking to see how relevant the writing is seen through a 21st century lenses. Whether it's how media works, how cliques of people function, etc. It truly feels timeless in a way that I've found very surprising. It also very much supports notions that people don't change even if means and methods do.