3 ms·

One can have a visa revoked for any arbitrary reason, as they are a guest in the country and not a citizen. But yes, obviously serious threats of violence are

One can have a visa revoked for any arbitrary reason, as they are a guest in the country and not a citizen. But yes, obviously serious threats of violence are not protected speech.

mycall 1y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if publishing circumvention code would be argued in court to be violence against earning money for political oriented books (spending money is a necessary and inseparable part of political communication).
- ranger_danger 1y ago
  relevant article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number
Sammi 1y ago
Which would explain why foreign tourists to the US have been decreasing recently.
gambiting 1y ago
Right, but as confirmed over and over and over again, non-citizens also have the right to 1st amendment, same as citizens.
- amiga386 1y ago
  They do have that right, but at the same time, a chaotic and vindictive adminstration can revoke the visa of, and then physically abduct, a non-citizen. They can then make statements that plainly make it clear they did that because of what the non-citizen wrote. They can also contravene a number of other legal safeguards along the way, and disregard judges' orders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%96zt%C3%BCrk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Rasha_Alawieh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Rasha_Alawieh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mahmoud_Khalil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mahmoud_Khalil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mohsen_Mahdawi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mohsen_Mahdawi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activist_deportations_in_the_second_Trump_presidency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activist_deportations_in_the_s... It appears the US has elected an administration that wants to turn the country into a lawless shithole, where the powerful do whatever the fuck they want, and they deliberately fuck with laws and safeguards, and deliberately target their political enemies (e.g. student activists), to flex how powerful they are.
  - AnthonyMouse 1y ago
    > They can then make statements that plainly make it clear they did that because of what the non-citizen wrote. I kind of hate the thing where people want to make this the part that matters, because Trump is a massive outlier who doesn't care about that and says the thing he's not supposed to say. But the people who still do the prosecution under the pretext and then don't admit to why are even worse, because they're doing the same thing and then lying about it on top of that. If all you do is punish people for not lying, that's not going to solve anything. You need to take away their ability to trump up charges against random people.
    - projektfu 1y ago
      Norm MacDonald: There's one comedian who said to me that the worst part of the Cosby thing is the hypocrisy, but I disagree. Jerry Seinfeld: You disagree? Norm MacDonald: Yeah, I thought it was the raping.
- AnthonyMouse 1y ago
  This is the general problem with having a bunch of laws sitting around that allow the government to punish people for things ordinary people regularly do, but then exercise the "discretion" not to punish them until they do something the government doesn't like. Because then you don't really have any rights. They can't formally punish you for speech but they can punish you for breaking the same unrelated law a million other people broke without knowing and that only you were prosecuted for, "coincidentally" right after you said something they didn't like.
  - tad_tough_anne 1y ago
    But see Gonzalez v. Trevino, No. 22-1025 (U.S. June 20, 2024) (per curiam), <https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-1025_1a72.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-1025_1a72.pdf>.
rswail 1y ago
The First Amendment applies to any person in the United States, not just citizens. Visas should not be able to be revoked for "any arbitrary reason". The fact that your statement is becoming more and more true in the United States is an indictment.

One can have a visa revoked for any arbitrary reason, as they are a guest in the country and not a citizen. But yes, obviously serious threats of violence are not protected speech.

mycall 1y ago

I wouldn't be surprised if publishing circumvention code would be argued in court to be violence against earning money for political oriented books (spending money is a necessary and inseparable part of political communication).

ranger_danger 1y ago
relevant article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number

Sammi 1y ago

Which would explain why foreign tourists to the US have been decreasing recently.

gambiting 1y ago

Right, but as confirmed over and over and over again, non-citizens also have the right to 1st amendment, same as citizens.

amiga386 1y ago
They do have that right, but at the same time, a chaotic and vindictive adminstration can revoke the visa of, and then physically abduct, a non-citizen. They can then make statements that plainly make it clear they did that because of what the non-citizen wrote. They can also contravene a number of other legal safeguards along the way, and disregard judges' orders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%96zt%C3%BCrk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_R%C3%BCmeysa_%C3%... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Rasha_Alawieh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_Rasha_Alawieh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mahmoud_Khalil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mahmoud_Khalil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mohsen_Mahdawi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Mohsen_Mahdawi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activist_deportations_in_the_second_Trump_presidency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activist_deportations_in_the_s... It appears the US has elected an administration that wants to turn the country into a lawless shithole, where the powerful do whatever the fuck they want, and they deliberately fuck with laws and safeguards, and deliberately target their political enemies (e.g. student activists), to flex how powerful they are.
- AnthonyMouse 1y ago
  > They can then make statements that plainly make it clear they did that because of what the non-citizen wrote. I kind of hate the thing where people want to make this the part that matters, because Trump is a massive outlier who doesn't care about that and says the thing he's not supposed to say. But the people who still do the prosecution under the pretext and then don't admit to why are even worse, because they're doing the same thing and then lying about it on top of that. If all you do is punish people for not lying, that's not going to solve anything. You need to take away their ability to trump up charges against random people.
  - projektfu 1y ago
    Norm MacDonald: There's one comedian who said to me that the worst part of the Cosby thing is the hypocrisy, but I disagree. Jerry Seinfeld: You disagree? Norm MacDonald: Yeah, I thought it was the raping.
AnthonyMouse 1y ago
This is the general problem with having a bunch of laws sitting around that allow the government to punish people for things ordinary people regularly do, but then exercise the "discretion" not to punish them until they do something the government doesn't like. Because then you don't really have any rights. They can't formally punish you for speech but they can punish you for breaking the same unrelated law a million other people broke without knowing and that only you were prosecuted for, "coincidentally" right after you said something they didn't like.
- tad_tough_anne 1y ago
  But see Gonzalez v. Trevino, No. 22-1025 (U.S. June 20, 2024) (per curiam), <https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-1025_1a72.pdf https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/22-1025_1a72.pdf>.

rswail 1y ago

The First Amendment applies to any person in the United States, not just citizens. Visas should not be able to be revoked for "any arbitrary reason". The fact that your statement is becoming more and more true in the United States is an indictment.