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I'd have to disagree with the passwords thing. This is a design decision from the beginning, not a "I'll get around to it" type of thing. It's just about the

I'd have to disagree with the passwords thing. This is a design decision from the beginning, not a "I'll get around to it" type of thing. It's just about the same amount of work to implement salted and hashed passwords as it is not to. And it's much easier to just do it right the first time than trying to go back and fix it later. I can't imagine how a skilled web developer would miss something that glaringly obvious.

jrabone 14y ago
An experienced web developer, no. A skilled-but-never-built-anything-but-a-toy developer? I'm not so sure. Best practice is rarely sexy. Agile development methodologies over-emphasise YAGNI and do-the-simplest-thing (to the point that I want to scream -THAT-WORKS every time I hear that phrase being parroted by junior developers). Sure, once they've been on the wrong end of a high-profile identifying information leak, they'll never forget to do it right. But the best of the best? They're building air traffic control systems, or embedded missile guidance, or airbag controllers, or F1 ECUs, or million-simultaneous-call telecoms payment processors, or any one of a thousand other systems where you don't get a second chance to get it right.
- Evbn 14y ago
  Newbies don't have skills. Aptitude maybe, not skills.
  - jrabone 14y ago
    Total newbies, agreed. I'm thinking a progression that goes high school [aptitude] -> college / work exp. [skills] -> employments [experience] - ie. I'm hoping that many developers at least go to college, or built things by themselves, or had some kind of work experience before they get their first "real" job, on the back of any natural aptitude.
- koide 14y ago
  So, two questions: 1.- How do those companies get the best of the best? 2.- Are you sure it's talent and not process? Where you can't fail, you usually have even the smallest change specified in thousands of pages and reviewed by many people.
  - jrabone 14y ago
    1. In the UK, via the "milk round" of good universities, personal referrals, industrial sponsorship... Also, some universities won't take undergraduates straight from school, which forces a "year out" in industry which plays into recruitment. It was kind of fun watching the big players fighting over those new grads with 1st class degrees. 2. I think, at it's best, the process is the safety net. At it's worse, it's a substitute for talented people - but I don't think that's sustainable for long. Perhaps it's just a different talent, for working in an extremely tightly controlled way without going crazy.

jrabone 14y ago

An experienced web developer, no. A skilled-but-never-built-anything-but-a-toy developer? I'm not so sure. Best practice is rarely sexy. Agile development methodologies over-emphasise YAGNI and do-the-simplest-thing (to the point that I want to scream -THAT-WORKS every time I hear that phrase being parroted by junior developers). Sure, once they've been on the wrong end of a high-profile identifying information leak, they'll never forget to do it right. But the best of the best? They're building air traffic control systems, or embedded missile guidance, or airbag controllers, or F1 ECUs, or million-simultaneous-call telecoms payment processors, or any one of a thousand other systems where you don't get a second chance to get it right.

Evbn 14y ago
Newbies don't have skills. Aptitude maybe, not skills.
- jrabone 14y ago
  Total newbies, agreed. I'm thinking a progression that goes high school [aptitude] -> college / work exp. [skills] -> employments [experience] - ie. I'm hoping that many developers at least go to college, or built things by themselves, or had some kind of work experience before they get their first "real" job, on the back of any natural aptitude.
koide 14y ago
So, two questions: 1.- How do those companies get the best of the best? 2.- Are you sure it's talent and not process? Where you can't fail, you usually have even the smallest change specified in thousands of pages and reviewed by many people.
- jrabone 14y ago
  1. In the UK, via the "milk round" of good universities, personal referrals, industrial sponsorship... Also, some universities won't take undergraduates straight from school, which forces a "year out" in industry which plays into recruitment. It was kind of fun watching the big players fighting over those new grads with 1st class degrees. 2. I think, at it's best, the process is the safety net. At it's worse, it's a substitute for talented people - but I don't think that's sustainable for long. Perhaps it's just a different talent, for working in an extremely tightly controlled way without going crazy.