4 ms·

> HN is the only place I can read comments that are genuinely disagreeable. Only true if your general argument is still in line with the HN zeitgeist. You are

by stuffn 1y ago

> HN is the only place I can read comments that are genuinely disagreeable. Only true if your general argument is still in line with the HN zeitgeist. You are allowed to disagree so long as you dont disagree on core topics. HN has the same problem reddit does in that a voting system in general necessarily introduces censorship and lack of diversity of discussion. While people here don't karma farm (or karma guard) as aggressively it takes almost nothing to end up shadowbanned/instant-flagged/etc for having a disagreeable standpoint. In other words, as long as you aren't right of center you can disagree all you want. Even a trivially libertarian viewpoint is met with significant ire. Voting systems in general are a massive problem in social media. They don't stop the truly bad actors but they drive away the exact thing that prevents you from being caught in an echo chamber (of which HN is an example of).

LambdaComplex 1y ago
> HN has the same problem reddit does in that a voting system in general necessarily introduces censorship and lack of diversity of discussion. The alternative is to be like 4chan, though. I'll begrudgingly admit that there are pros, but the cons definitely outweigh them.
- LexiMax 1y ago
  > The alternative is to be like 4chan, though 4chan's problem isn't the lack of a voting system, the problem comes from the complete anonymity of its users, the lack of friction to post, and the near complete lack of moderation standards. The very best online online communities I've ever been a part of - and continue to participate in - tend to have two major things in common. First, there has to be some sort of friction to join the conversation. Second, there are moderation standards, and these standards are only enforced with active and engaged moderators, and not by easily-gamed populism-driven systems.
- GeoAtreides 1y ago
  >The alternative is to be like 4chan False. The alternative might be something like spacebattles.
verisimi 1y ago
Excellent comment. Disagreeable comments can be sincerely held, supported, but this means little if you do not hold the prevailing opinion with the downvoting/flagging/almost impossible-to-read feint grey text, which is often where the gold is! Weekends are definitely better for more open conversation.
- brycewray 1y ago
  Regarding the grayed-out-text phenomenon, my way around this has been to use the Stylebot extension on Chromium- and Gecko-based browsers and apply the following CSS to HN pages: div div a, div p a { color: darkblue; } div.commtext.c5A { color: #5A0000; } div.commtext.c73 { color: #730000; } div.commtext.c88 { color: #880000; } div.commtext.c9C { color: #9C0000; } div.commtext.cAE { color: #AE0000; } div.commtext.cBE { color: #BE0000; } div.commtext.cCE { color: #CE0000; } div.commtext.cDD { color: #DD0000; } div.commtext.c5A a, div.commtext.c73 a, div.commtext.c88 a, div.commtext.c9C a, div.commtext.cAE a, div.commtext.cBE a, div.commtext.cCE a, div.commtext.cDD a { color: darkred; } div div pre { color: darkgreen; }
  - verisimi 1y ago
    Good idea. The grey comments often have some of the best comments, if you can read them.
ozim 1y ago
Kind of find it annoying people down vote things they disagree with. I down vote only things I find that should not be posted like as-persona or something I really know is just wrong. Of course there is a bit of blur between something being wrong and something we disagree.
- ramon156 1y ago
  Basically anything that doesn't follow the comment guidelines. Once e.g. a comment becomes personal, I downvote it for being unrelated to the subject
- blooalien 1y ago
  > ... "or something I really know is just wrong." Sometimes I'll up-vote or ignore these if the "wrong" is really common, and there's a reply with a really thorough and valid debunking or explanation attached, just to avoid burying that reply (which TBH, education should be the proper response to someone being wrong). Can't learn if the education is always buried or hidden before people ever have a chance to find it, after all... Or maybe that's the goal for some down-voters, I suppose?
SanjayMehta 1y ago
I'm no longer inclined to present a counter view on this site, even with references. It's as close to a polite version of Reddit as it could get without becoming Reddit.
Konnstann 1y ago
The last libertarian post I saw wasn't getting downvoted and it was by a guy who wanted to set up meetings with cartels to improve the efficiency of their drug dealing business.

by stuffn 1y ago

LambdaComplex 1y ago

> HN has the same problem reddit does in that a voting system in general necessarily introduces censorship and lack of diversity of discussion. The alternative is to be like 4chan, though. I'll begrudgingly admit that there are pros, but the cons definitely outweigh them.

LexiMax 1y ago
> The alternative is to be like 4chan, though 4chan's problem isn't the lack of a voting system, the problem comes from the complete anonymity of its users, the lack of friction to post, and the near complete lack of moderation standards. The very best online online communities I've ever been a part of - and continue to participate in - tend to have two major things in common. First, there has to be some sort of friction to join the conversation. Second, there are moderation standards, and these standards are only enforced with active and engaged moderators, and not by easily-gamed populism-driven systems.
GeoAtreides 1y ago
>The alternative is to be like 4chan False. The alternative might be something like spacebattles.

verisimi 1y ago

Excellent comment. Disagreeable comments can be sincerely held, supported, but this means little if you do not hold the prevailing opinion with the downvoting/flagging/almost impossible-to-read feint grey text, which is often where the gold is! Weekends are definitely better for more open conversation.

brycewray 1y ago
Regarding the grayed-out-text phenomenon, my way around this has been to use the Stylebot extension on Chromium- and Gecko-based browsers and apply the following CSS to HN pages: div div a, div p a { color: darkblue; } div.commtext.c5A { color: #5A0000; } div.commtext.c73 { color: #730000; } div.commtext.c88 { color: #880000; } div.commtext.c9C { color: #9C0000; } div.commtext.cAE { color: #AE0000; } div.commtext.cBE { color: #BE0000; } div.commtext.cCE { color: #CE0000; } div.commtext.cDD { color: #DD0000; } div.commtext.c5A a, div.commtext.c73 a, div.commtext.c88 a, div.commtext.c9C a, div.commtext.cAE a, div.commtext.cBE a, div.commtext.cCE a, div.commtext.cDD a { color: darkred; } div div pre { color: darkgreen; }
- verisimi 1y ago
  Good idea. The grey comments often have some of the best comments, if you can read them.

ozim 1y ago

Kind of find it annoying people down vote things they disagree with. I down vote only things I find that should not be posted like as-persona or something I really know is just wrong. Of course there is a bit of blur between something being wrong and something we disagree.

ramon156 1y ago
Basically anything that doesn't follow the comment guidelines. Once e.g. a comment becomes personal, I downvote it for being unrelated to the subject
blooalien 1y ago
> ... "or something I really know is just wrong." Sometimes I'll up-vote or ignore these if the "wrong" is really common, and there's a reply with a really thorough and valid debunking or explanation attached, just to avoid burying that reply (which TBH, education should be the proper response to someone being wrong). Can't learn if the education is always buried or hidden before people ever have a chance to find it, after all... Or maybe that's the goal for some down-voters, I suppose?

SanjayMehta 1y ago

I'm no longer inclined to present a counter view on this site, even with references. It's as close to a polite version of Reddit as it could get without becoming Reddit.

Konnstann 1y ago

The last libertarian post I saw wasn't getting downvoted and it was by a guy who wanted to set up meetings with cartels to improve the efficiency of their drug dealing business.