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> If people were legally allowed to live near grocery stores What are you talking about? What backwaters country is this? In many places in the world, people l

> If people were legally allowed to live near grocery stores What are you talking about? What backwaters country is this? In many places in the world, people live literally on top of grocery stores, such law would be ridiculed until the law makers have to socially isolate themselves if they tried to come up with something so stupid.

Zambyte 1y ago
The US, which is where Phoenix is. And yes, my point is that we (in the US) should have walkable (and bikeable) cities, like much of the rest of the world.
- xnx 1y ago
  100 yards isn't a walkable distance in Phoenix in the summer.
  - Zambyte 1y ago
    Yes it is.
    - xnx 1y ago
      I wouldn't want any elderly person I knew walking that distance in any of the 3 weeks Phoenix typically spends over 100 degrees (even hotter over pavement).
      - Zambyte 1y ago
        100 yards is less than a block. Did you mean to say a longer distance? And yeah, walkable cities includes infrastructure that does not magnify the sun at pedestrians (see: shade, plants)
      - asdff 1y ago
        You know what desert cultures around the world do to avoid this phenomenon? They just go outside in the mornings and evenings.
afavour 1y ago
I assume OP is talking about US zoning laws which separate residential zones from commercial ones.
- CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
  But in cities and towns you must have mixed zoning like the rest of the world?
  - evandev 1y ago
    > the median distance to the nearest food store for the overall U.S. population was 0.9 miles, with 40 percent of the U.S. population living more than 1 mile from a food store. The median distance to the third-nearest food store for the overall population was 1.7 miles. When the ERS researchers looked at rural food store access, they found that the median distance to the nearest and the third-nearest food store was 3.1 miles and 6.1 miles, respectively. https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2019/june/u-s-shoppers-access-to-multiple-food-stores-varies-by-region https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2019/june/u-s-shoppers-...
  - macNchz 1y ago
    The great majority of development in American cities over the last 75 years has been single-use, with neighborhoods of exclusively single-family houses separated from nearby commercial strips with big parking lots along wide roads. The downtown/center of older cities may still have mixed use, and there have been changes happening in recent years to allow/build more apartments and mixed use areas, but, generally outside of the densest parts of the largest cities commercial and residential areas are required to be separate, with personal cars as the primary/only way to get between them. This has been a bit of a self-reinforcing phenomenon, IMO, as car-first infrastructure puts people at the mercy of traffic congestion, and means that any apartment building or business in their vicinity will result in more cars passing through, more congestion, more competition for parking, as well as the presence of the large parking lots that cities mandate for any new construction, which themselves make it unpleasant to get around in any other way.
  - devilbunny 1y ago
grim_io 1y ago
Bless your non-merican heart :_)
arrosenberg 1y ago
They are talking about US suburbs. For example, the house I grew up in is over a mile to the nearest grocery and you have to cross two large intersections on the way.
- CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
  The intersection stuff sucks, but "over a mile" seems to be between 1.5 to 2km, is that considered far to walk in the US? Measuring where I go to have my morning coffee at a cafe each day, it seems to be 1.3km away, and I walk there and back every morning...
  - arrosenberg 1y ago
    Are you carrying your groceries to the coffee shop? Also, walking places in US suburbs is a miserable experience, especially in the Southwest where it gets hot. Everything is spread out with large parking lots, sidewalks are a maybe, the roads are busy and there is no shade or sound dampening.
    - CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
      > Are you carrying your groceries to the coffee shop? Obviously no. But where I lived ~20 years ago the nearest grocery was a 20 minute walk there and then 20 minute walk back with two or four shopping bags with stuff, and I wasn't the only one walking there when needing to do shopping. I think it's more common than not out in the world that things are far away so you need to spend awful amount of time on just getting places. Unless you live in a city of course.
  - ragazzina 1y ago
    Go to Google Maps, drop the StreeView person anywhere in the US 10 times and count how many times you find yourself in a place where you would be happy to be walking right now. Try and look for sidewalks and pedestrian crossings. It's hard to understand the layout of American cities for the European and Asian mind. I've been to the US many times and I'm still shocked when I need to drive from this parking lot to that parking lot across the street because it would be dangerous and possibly illegal to just walk there.
piperswe 1y ago
My grocery store is 3 miles (~5km) away with nearly zero sidewalks, and I live in the capital city of my state. America is a hellscape in that respect.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  Counterpoint: my family in New Delhi regularly gets groceries (and booze and cigarettes and pet food) delivered. Convenience comes in many forms, and not everyone values the same elements similarly.

Zambyte 1y ago

The US, which is where Phoenix is. And yes, my point is that we (in the US) should have walkable (and bikeable) cities, like much of the rest of the world.

xnx 1y ago
100 yards isn't a walkable distance in Phoenix in the summer.
- Zambyte 1y ago
  Yes it is.
  - xnx 1y ago
    I wouldn't want any elderly person I knew walking that distance in any of the 3 weeks Phoenix typically spends over 100 degrees (even hotter over pavement).
    - Zambyte 1y ago
      100 yards is less than a block. Did you mean to say a longer distance? And yeah, walkable cities includes infrastructure that does not magnify the sun at pedestrians (see: shade, plants)
    - asdff 1y ago
      You know what desert cultures around the world do to avoid this phenomenon? They just go outside in the mornings and evenings.

afavour 1y ago

I assume OP is talking about US zoning laws which separate residential zones from commercial ones.

CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
But in cities and towns you must have mixed zoning like the rest of the world?
- evandev 1y ago
  > the median distance to the nearest food store for the overall U.S. population was 0.9 miles, with 40 percent of the U.S. population living more than 1 mile from a food store. The median distance to the third-nearest food store for the overall population was 1.7 miles. When the ERS researchers looked at rural food store access, they found that the median distance to the nearest and the third-nearest food store was 3.1 miles and 6.1 miles, respectively. https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2019/june/u-s-shoppers-access-to-multiple-food-stores-varies-by-region https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2019/june/u-s-shoppers-...
- macNchz 1y ago
  The great majority of development in American cities over the last 75 years has been single-use, with neighborhoods of exclusively single-family houses separated from nearby commercial strips with big parking lots along wide roads. The downtown/center of older cities may still have mixed use, and there have been changes happening in recent years to allow/build more apartments and mixed use areas, but, generally outside of the densest parts of the largest cities commercial and residential areas are required to be separate, with personal cars as the primary/only way to get between them. This has been a bit of a self-reinforcing phenomenon, IMO, as car-first infrastructure puts people at the mercy of traffic congestion, and means that any apartment building or business in their vicinity will result in more cars passing through, more congestion, more competition for parking, as well as the presence of the large parking lots that cities mandate for any new construction, which themselves make it unpleasant to get around in any other way.
- devilbunny 1y ago

grim_io 1y ago

Bless your non-merican heart :_)

arrosenberg 1y ago

They are talking about US suburbs. For example, the house I grew up in is over a mile to the nearest grocery and you have to cross two large intersections on the way.

CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
The intersection stuff sucks, but "over a mile" seems to be between 1.5 to 2km, is that considered far to walk in the US? Measuring where I go to have my morning coffee at a cafe each day, it seems to be 1.3km away, and I walk there and back every morning...
- arrosenberg 1y ago
  Are you carrying your groceries to the coffee shop? Also, walking places in US suburbs is a miserable experience, especially in the Southwest where it gets hot. Everything is spread out with large parking lots, sidewalks are a maybe, the roads are busy and there is no shade or sound dampening.
  - CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
    > Are you carrying your groceries to the coffee shop? Obviously no. But where I lived ~20 years ago the nearest grocery was a 20 minute walk there and then 20 minute walk back with two or four shopping bags with stuff, and I wasn't the only one walking there when needing to do shopping. I think it's more common than not out in the world that things are far away so you need to spend awful amount of time on just getting places. Unless you live in a city of course.
- ragazzina 1y ago
  Go to Google Maps, drop the StreeView person anywhere in the US 10 times and count how many times you find yourself in a place where you would be happy to be walking right now. Try and look for sidewalks and pedestrian crossings. It's hard to understand the layout of American cities for the European and Asian mind. I've been to the US many times and I'm still shocked when I need to drive from this parking lot to that parking lot across the street because it would be dangerous and possibly illegal to just walk there.

piperswe 1y ago

My grocery store is 3 miles (~5km) away with nearly zero sidewalks, and I live in the capital city of my state. America is a hellscape in that respect.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
Counterpoint: my family in New Delhi regularly gets groceries (and booze and cigarettes and pet food) delivered. Convenience comes in many forms, and not everyone values the same elements similarly.