4 ms·

Have a hard time take this serious without hetzner

by notrealyme123 1y ago

oytis 1y ago
Also "sovereign US cloud" is a bad joke
- dangus 1y ago
  Not really a joke at all, the point is to find a cloud provider that can place resources in a guaranteed location that stays within the legal boundaries of a country. This is for when you need to guarantee that your services cannot possibly escape boundaries of a specific country.
  - dherls 1y ago
    I think the "joke" is if the US government orders a company to hand over that data, the fact that the servers are physically in the EU won't stop anything
    - _ZeD_ 1y ago
      why it should happen?
      - speedgoose 1y ago
        Intelligence.
    - seszett 1y ago
      This is addressed on the very page though: > A sovereign US cloud does not address or mitigate the strategic reliance of European businesses and governments on US-based cloud providers. > Some commentators are therefore calling those attempts “Sovereign-Cloud-Washing” or “EUWashing”.
    - codedokode 1y ago
      It's one thing if they require the copy of data, and another thing if the President wakes up in a bad mood and orders deleting all the data. Imagine if the whole computing infrastructure for power plants, public transportation, banks, payment systems, large companies gets deleted in a minute. You should not host the critical data on other country's servers.
    - dangus 1y ago
      That’s not the goal, it’s about regulatory compliance.
  - grumpy-de-sre 1y ago
    Sovereign cloud might theoretically mean sovereign control over data. Does absolutely jack shit about the blocs trade deficit in the cloud services space though. Hundreds of billions of euros being sent abroad every year. Without some kind of collective trade policy [1] sovereign cloud initiatives will continue to be a waste of time for everyone involved (including engineers). Also if you see the phrase Gaia-X ... run. 1. https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/now-how-to-get-that-european-cloud/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/now-how-to-get-that-europe...
  - jamesblonde 1y ago
    You obviously haven't heard of the cloud act, which american cloud providers must follow. Microsoft will do as they are told by Trump - "turn off access to the ICC's criminal prosecutor for Gaza" - "yes boss".
dangus 1y ago
Hetzner doesn’t really have abstracted cloud services, they’re basically just bare metal servers or VPS.
- esperent 1y ago
  A VPS is still "cloud" though, isn't it?
- graemep 1y ago
  Cloud services like AWS offer VPSes (Lightsail) so the boundary is very blurry. In any case Hertzner offers load balances, firewalls, private networks, which is fairly cloudy stuff.
  - dangus 1y ago
    They’re building out more cloud capability but not anywhere near the level that AWS and the rest have. AWS has way more managed business logic. Directory services, authentication, serverless PaaS, virtual workstations, data lakes, code deployment, the list goes on and on. Load balancers and firewalls are extremely basic in comparison.
- pinkgolem 1y ago
  They are on the way, they introduced s3, and now better dns Management There is still a lot missing, and tbh the s3 did not work great when I tested it.
Thaxll 1y ago
They don't have any cloud or abstraction. You basically rent bare metal servers.
- encom 1y ago
  Since "cloud" just means someone else's computer, I don't see how it doesn't qualify.
- eknkc 1y ago
  They have a cloud offering. Hourly billing instances with basic management features. They also have an S3 compatible storage service as part of it and a load balancer. I mean it is not really "cloud" compared to larger ones, just a toy but they are building things now.
- wongarsu 1y ago
  Hetzner is of the opinion that they have a cloud https://www.hetzner.com/cloud https://www.hetzner.com/cloud Whether it has enough features to satisfy your needs is another question, but it is more than just bare metal or vps
  - Thaxll 1y ago
    I mean basic features like auto scale and create new resources. The most basic thing with a load balancer and scale instances behind that. They don't have any of that.
    - wongarsu 1y ago
      They have load balancers, and while they don't have an auto scale feature they do have APIs for starting instances and configuring the load balancer. So it's not that difficult to build your own auto scaling As compared to a "traditional" offering where there's only a manual order form and getting a new server might take hours, making auto-scaling unfeasible
      - Thaxll 1y ago

Have a hard time take this serious without hetzner

oytis 1y ago

Also "sovereign US cloud" is a bad joke

dangus 1y ago
Not really a joke at all, the point is to find a cloud provider that can place resources in a guaranteed location that stays within the legal boundaries of a country. This is for when you need to guarantee that your services cannot possibly escape boundaries of a specific country.
- dherls 1y ago
  I think the "joke" is if the US government orders a company to hand over that data, the fact that the servers are physically in the EU won't stop anything
  - _ZeD_ 1y ago
    why it should happen?
    - speedgoose 1y ago
      Intelligence.
  - seszett 1y ago
    This is addressed on the very page though: > A sovereign US cloud does not address or mitigate the strategic reliance of European businesses and governments on US-based cloud providers. > Some commentators are therefore calling those attempts “Sovereign-Cloud-Washing” or “EUWashing”.
  - codedokode 1y ago
    It's one thing if they require the copy of data, and another thing if the President wakes up in a bad mood and orders deleting all the data. Imagine if the whole computing infrastructure for power plants, public transportation, banks, payment systems, large companies gets deleted in a minute. You should not host the critical data on other country's servers.
  - dangus 1y ago
    That’s not the goal, it’s about regulatory compliance.
- grumpy-de-sre 1y ago
  Sovereign cloud might theoretically mean sovereign control over data. Does absolutely jack shit about the blocs trade deficit in the cloud services space though. Hundreds of billions of euros being sent abroad every year. Without some kind of collective trade policy [1] sovereign cloud initiatives will continue to be a waste of time for everyone involved (including engineers). Also if you see the phrase Gaia-X ... run. 1. https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/now-how-to-get-that-european-cloud/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/now-how-to-get-that-europe...
- jamesblonde 1y ago
  You obviously haven't heard of the cloud act, which american cloud providers must follow. Microsoft will do as they are told by Trump - "turn off access to the ICC's criminal prosecutor for Gaza" - "yes boss".

dangus 1y ago

Hetzner doesn’t really have abstracted cloud services, they’re basically just bare metal servers or VPS.

esperent 1y ago
A VPS is still "cloud" though, isn't it?
graemep 1y ago
Cloud services like AWS offer VPSes (Lightsail) so the boundary is very blurry. In any case Hertzner offers load balances, firewalls, private networks, which is fairly cloudy stuff.
- dangus 1y ago
  They’re building out more cloud capability but not anywhere near the level that AWS and the rest have. AWS has way more managed business logic. Directory services, authentication, serverless PaaS, virtual workstations, data lakes, code deployment, the list goes on and on. Load balancers and firewalls are extremely basic in comparison.
pinkgolem 1y ago
They are on the way, they introduced s3, and now better dns Management There is still a lot missing, and tbh the s3 did not work great when I tested it.

Thaxll 1y ago

They don't have any cloud or abstraction. You basically rent bare metal servers.

encom 1y ago
Since "cloud" just means someone else's computer, I don't see how it doesn't qualify.
eknkc 1y ago
They have a cloud offering. Hourly billing instances with basic management features. They also have an S3 compatible storage service as part of it and a load balancer. I mean it is not really "cloud" compared to larger ones, just a toy but they are building things now.
wongarsu 1y ago
Hetzner is of the opinion that they have a cloud https://www.hetzner.com/cloud https://www.hetzner.com/cloud Whether it has enough features to satisfy your needs is another question, but it is more than just bare metal or vps
- Thaxll 1y ago
  I mean basic features like auto scale and create new resources. The most basic thing with a load balancer and scale instances behind that. They don't have any of that.
  - wongarsu 1y ago
    They have load balancers, and while they don't have an auto scale feature they do have APIs for starting instances and configuring the load balancer. So it's not that difficult to build your own auto scaling As compared to a "traditional" offering where there's only a manual order form and getting a new server might take hours, making auto-scaling unfeasible
    - Thaxll 1y ago