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I wonder why there has never been open source tax software. It seems exactly the kind of thing the community would be good at. I imagine it would be hard for v

by timmg 1y ago

I wonder why there has never been open source tax software. It seems exactly the kind of thing the community would be good at. I imagine it would be hard for very complex taxes. But for the 60% that have simple taxes, I don’t think it should be unmanageable. Is it a matter of liability? Like I could definitely see a big issue with mistakes — even if it was just operator error.

bayindirh 1y ago
Fast moving regulations and legislation. You need both a legal and developer team, at least to follow and implement things as soon as they become the law. Even the revision of yearly variables is a considerable task.
- hylaride 1y ago
  Many laws also exist specifically to keep industries afloat. The complicated tax code keeps many lawyers and accountants in business.
  - bayindirh 1y ago
    > The complicated tax code keeps many lawyers and accountants in business. At least, some of the complications in these are not intentional, but result of centuries old evolution of these systems. Maritime shipping uses centuries old systems to handle costs in shipping accidents for example. I forgot the exact name of the system, but while the method is extremely fair, it's equally complicated. The whole premise stems from "This ship has sailed because you wanted me to carry your cargo", and becomes something mind boggling. I'm sure there are some steps taken to keep people busy, but chalking up everything to it is unfair and wrong.
    - hylaride 1y ago
      Fair points, but there is hostility to fixing a lot of those historical rules for the same reasons. Long-standing business practices is another can of worms, especially ones as international as shipping.
      - bayindirh 1y ago
        Of course, this is a very complicated matter. I just wanted to point out that the issue has two sides, and it's not clear where a side ends and the other one starts. I have heard and seen enough horror stories about employee pushback on different scales against automation and simplification.
- datadrivenangel 1y ago
  And often the yearly variables aren't published until a few weeks or months in advance, so it's a scramble every year.
  - bayindirh 1y ago
    I know a couple of professional accountants. They have yearly regular overtime periods. It's hard on everyone.
tdeck 1y ago
Open Tax Solver has been around for years and is still maintained and updated each year. https://opentaxsolver.sourceforge.net/ https://opentaxsolver.sourceforge.net/ The UI leaves a lot to be desired, but it does work and I used it one year.
CodingJeebus 1y ago
> Is it a matter of liability? No, government builds all kinds of IT systems for a wide range of sensitive functions, and they certainly have the means to build or fund an open source tax filing system. The reason they don’t is twofold: A) massive corporate interests lobby the government to ensure projects like this don’t happen, and B) building functional infrastructure for the people goes against certain political narratives that government is useless and wasteful. If you campaign on the idea that government is inept and wasteful, you’re not likely to support projects that undermine your platform.
theknarf 1y ago
https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/tree/main https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/tree/main

by timmg 1y ago

bayindirh 1y ago

Fast moving regulations and legislation. You need both a legal and developer team, at least to follow and implement things as soon as they become the law. Even the revision of yearly variables is a considerable task.

hylaride 1y ago
Many laws also exist specifically to keep industries afloat. The complicated tax code keeps many lawyers and accountants in business.
- bayindirh 1y ago
  > The complicated tax code keeps many lawyers and accountants in business. At least, some of the complications in these are not intentional, but result of centuries old evolution of these systems. Maritime shipping uses centuries old systems to handle costs in shipping accidents for example. I forgot the exact name of the system, but while the method is extremely fair, it's equally complicated. The whole premise stems from "This ship has sailed because you wanted me to carry your cargo", and becomes something mind boggling. I'm sure there are some steps taken to keep people busy, but chalking up everything to it is unfair and wrong.
  - hylaride 1y ago
    Fair points, but there is hostility to fixing a lot of those historical rules for the same reasons. Long-standing business practices is another can of worms, especially ones as international as shipping.
    - bayindirh 1y ago
      Of course, this is a very complicated matter. I just wanted to point out that the issue has two sides, and it's not clear where a side ends and the other one starts. I have heard and seen enough horror stories about employee pushback on different scales against automation and simplification.
datadrivenangel 1y ago
And often the yearly variables aren't published until a few weeks or months in advance, so it's a scramble every year.
- bayindirh 1y ago
  I know a couple of professional accountants. They have yearly regular overtime periods. It's hard on everyone.

tdeck 1y ago

Open Tax Solver has been around for years and is still maintained and updated each year. https://opentaxsolver.sourceforge.net/ https://opentaxsolver.sourceforge.net/ The UI leaves a lot to be desired, but it does work and I used it one year.

CodingJeebus 1y ago

> Is it a matter of liability? No, government builds all kinds of IT systems for a wide range of sensitive functions, and they certainly have the means to build or fund an open source tax filing system. The reason they don’t is twofold: A) massive corporate interests lobby the government to ensure projects like this don’t happen, and B) building functional infrastructure for the people goes against certain political narratives that government is useless and wasteful. If you campaign on the idea that government is inept and wasteful, you’re not likely to support projects that undermine your platform.

theknarf 1y ago

https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/tree/main https://github.com/IRS-Public/direct-file/tree/main